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Thread: ***Official*** Tendulkar vs Ponting Thread

  1. #76
    International Coach Ikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    I dislike a lot of what Ikki says, but I do agree with him. Sachin having a higher average than Ponting right now doesn't mean he's better than him. It is hypocritical to bring it up now, when Ponting had a higher average (as did Dravid) for so long, yet it wasn't mentioned then (for those supporting Tendulkar).

    None the less, what it does suggest (and you're lying to yourself if you don't admit it) is that over the last 2-3 years Sachin has been the better batsman in tests (ODIs too actually).
    That's all that needs to be said. And frankly, even if you were Ponting's #1 fanboy you can't deny that Tendulkar has been better in the last few years.
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    guys.... i brought up the average not to prove sachin is a better batsman than ponting overall. he always was, even with a lower average. he always will be even after ponting eventually overtakes him once again.

    my point was exactly what it I had written, that sachin's average has gone above ponting's after a long time! with sachin doing so well of late the numbers are beginning to go in the right direction after a gap of few years. if we all were to sit down and decide when ponting's superiority ended may be this point will be an important statistical milestone. that is it. dont mix it up with the bigger argument; that is solved already. ponting is a great batsman. but he will be one plane below sachin, forever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    Except for when he regularly faced McGrath. Who regularly didn't play a full series due to injuries. He averages 36.77 in matches against him. I wouldn't start claiming that as good.

    I bring up McGrath due to the fact that Sir Alex points out that we had the best attack of the era, EVER. When that couldn't have been so without McGrath in the line-up.



    That's maybe 1 inning. It does not invalidate the notion that they are a piss-poor team - pardon the harshness.

    What is the average of Punter against Ambrose and Walsh. I think not something to be proud of.


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    Quote Originally Posted by satyam View Post
    After all it is batting average and runs that count. SO sehwag has both better than him and also strike rate.
    Ponting and Sachin played in the same era. Hence the easiness of batting was more or less experienced by both. So arguing that one had it easier in a certain period is irrelevant when the other batsmen also played in that era and did worse.

    Sehwag and Viv are from two entirely different eras.

    It is not the same logic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    You seem to be lost on the point I am making. I am not saying a decade's worth of superiority means total superiority.

    You mentioned the fact that a large part of Tendulkar's run-making came in a tougher era. Frankly, that's true. However, is overturned by some very important points:

    1) Ponting also played in that tougher era.
    2) In that period against the best opponents he scored well - the ones he failed at were the worst, which hardly distinguishes making runs against them in the 90s or 00s anyway.
    3) They BOTH played in the 00s (the decade I used) yet Ponting is a mile in front.
    1. Ponting played for 2-3 years in that tough era??
    2. Never really had to perform outside his comfort zones (Australia and South Africa) for a long period. His home and away averages bear testimony in this case.
    3. He scored against Donald when he was near the end of his career, and never dominated Walsh/Ambrose. Played the Ws when they too were near their career ends (and well past their peak) while Tendulkar faced them and Imran when Ws were at their peak. Also as I said, Ponting never faced McGrath/Warne/Gillespie/ etc at their peaks in test match conditions. Tendulkar has had the better of Steyn at Steyn's peak than Ponting.

    Had we compared players who played in different eras, you'd have a point. But Tendulkar also played in the 00s. He also had the chance, and he didn't do it. Hence, pointing out the fact that he did superbly in the 90s should go hand in hand with pointing out that he did worse in the 00s when it was "easier".
    Ponting was better for 5 odd years in the 2000s than Tendulkar. And Ponting's best almost exactly coincided with Tendulkar's worst period. So in these 5 years, Ponting was miles better than Tendulkar agreed. But to say that based on those 5 years, Ponting has dominated Tendulkar in the 2000s fully is ridiculous. Check out their records pre 2002 and post 2007.
    P.S. Zimbabwe is a true minnow. For almost all bar a very small period of time during the turn of the century were they not.
    They;ve been competitive and better than Bangladesh and todays West Indies/Pakistan then. Also important to note Tendulkar played them during the turn of the century more.

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    Forget era. Check the strike rate of sehwag against Steyn

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    I remember when Sachin made 248* against Bangladesh, no one else crossed 100 in the match, and the recent 100 out of 240 odd was also a very crucial innings. So yes, he has "cashed in" a couple of innings when everybody was getting stuck in, but he has also saved India embarrassment on a few occasions. I remember Australia struggled against Bangladesh in one Test in 2006 and Gilchrist and Ponting played important roles. I don't think minnows should be removed from the records in these kinds of debates when a batsman has comprehensively proved himself under all conditions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    Ponting and Sachin played in the same era. Hence the easiness of batting was more or less experienced by both. So arguing that one had it easier in a certain period is irrelevant when the other batsmen also played in that era and did worse.

    Sehwag and Viv are from two entirely different eras.

    It is not the same logic.
    Deception of the highest order.

    Ponting made his dough in the mid 2000s while Tendulkar did it in mid 90s to late 90s. And he made his debut in the 80s and played for 7-8 years of test cricket before Ponting even debuted.

    Ponting happened to be there for about 60-70% of Tendulkar's era.Doesnt mean they belonged to the same era.

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    Quote Originally Posted by satyam View Post
    Forget era. Check the strike rate of sehwag against Steyn

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    What's Sehwag's relevance in this thread?

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    Strike rate of sehwag against Muralitharan

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    Quote Originally Posted by vcs View Post
    I remember when Sachin made 248* against Bangladesh, no one else crossed 100 in the match, and the recent 100 out of 240 odd was also a very crucial innings. So yes, he has "cashed in" a couple of innings when everybody was getting stuck in, but he has also saved India embarrassment on a few occasions. I remember Australia struggled against Bangladesh in one Test in 2006 and Gilchrist and Ponting played important roles. I don't think minnows should be removed from the records in these kinds of debates when a batsman has comprehensively proved himself under all conditions.
    Exactly.

    Would also love to see how many "solitary" 100s did Tendulkar and Ponting make in their respective careers as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Alex View Post
    What's Sehwag's relevance in this thread?
    I was just saying if by having larger averager punter>sachin

    then sehwag>viv richards

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Alex View Post
    1. Ponting played for 2-3 years in that tough era??
    No, he played for 5.

    2. Never really had to perform outside his comfort zones (Australia and South Africa) for a long period. His home and away averages bear testimony in this case.
    S.Africa is a comfort zone? Stop making things up. His record against the 3 other (not including his own) great pace attacks of the time is very fine; and even more impressive done in his youth.

    3. He scored against Donald when he was near the end of his career, and never dominated Walsh/Ambrose. Played the Ws when they too were near their career ends (and well past their peak) while Tendulkar faced them and Imran when Ws were at their peak. Also as I said, Ponting never faced McGrath/Warne/Gillespie/ etc at their peaks in test match conditions. Tendulkar has had the better of Steyn at Steyn's peak than Ponting.
    97 is at the end of Donald's career? Stop making things up. He played the WWs when they were still a force. He scored 88 in his first inning against Ambrose/Walsh.

    Ponting IIRC was beating on McGrath in domestic cricket in his teens. Never had a problem with Warne and Gillespie was never going to be a bowler who troubled him.

    Ponting is one of the best players of pace of all time; probably in the top handful and had a mass of success against most of the aforementioned bowlers.

    Ponting was better for 5 odd years in the 2000s than Tendulkar. And Ponting's best almost exactly coincided with Tendulkar's worst period. So in these 5 years, Ponting was miles better than Tendulkar agreed. But to say that based on those 5 years, Ponting has dominated Tendulkar in the 2000s fully is ridiculous. Check out their records pre 2002 and post 2007.
    It frankly doesn't matter much. You can slice it however you like. Tendulkar in the 00s was a pretty average batsman. In fact, removing minnows, of ALL batsman he is somewhere near the 24th or 25th highest average of the era. Your point about easiness is moot.

    They;ve been competitive and better than Bangladesh and todays West Indies/Pakistan then. Also important to note Tendulkar played them during the turn of the century more.
    No, they haven't. Who knows where WIndies cricket will end up, but Zimbabwe were not much better, if at all, and that is only during the very small period near the turn of the century. They were a poor test team throughout, and were so when Tendulkar faced them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by satyam View Post
    I was just saying if by having larger averager punter>sachin

    then sehwag>viv richards
    Does nothing other than to derail this wonderful thread.

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