Can Ponting overtake Tendulkar?

[Sir Alex]

Originally Posted by AaronK

if he did.. he doesn't deserve it... such record only suits a great batsman like Tendulkar to keep.. Pointing may go down as one of the best..but I don't think he will be as good as sachin..

Interesting. Why he shouldn't be deserving if he broke the record? I'd personally regard him as even better than Tendulkar because he'd have had an unbelievable run then against all odds not to mention a more complete record.

[silentstriker]

Not going to get into Ponting vs. Tendulkar, but deserve doesn't come into it. If you achieve it, you deserve it. Kapil Dev broke Richard Hadlee's record. Dev was nowhere near the bowler Hadlee was.

No one made those runs for him or took wickets for Kapil. He did it year after year. You get the record, and you did it the hard way, and you deserve it.

[Dano.85]

Originally Posted by silentstriker

Not going to get into Ponting vs. Tendulkar, but deserve doesn't come into it. If you achieve it, you deserve it. Kapil Dev broke Richard Hadlee's record. Dev was nowhere near the bowler Hadlee was.

No one made those runs for him or took wickets for Kapil. He did it year after year. You get the record, and you did it the hard way, and you deserve it.

Well said, totally agree.

[HGB1892]

How many of Tendulkar's tons have come on ridiculously flat pitches in India? Quite a few i'd bet. I'm not slagging Sachin by the way, i just think that Ponting would edge him in an even contest IMHO.

[Sir Alex]

Originally Posted by HGB1892

How many of Tendulkar's tons have come on ridiculously flat pitches in India? Quite a few i'd bet. I'm not slagging Sachin by the way, i just think that Ponting would edge him in an even contest IMHO.

He averages 58 in Australia against much better attacks than Ponting had to. He averages 62 in England which is much better than Ponting does. Now if you're saying these two countries produce only flat pitches then I am precam. Also Ponting's inability to buy a run on the 'flattest pitches' of the world show his frailty more than greatness.

Also the guy has scored more tons away than at home, so that argument is also pretty fail.

[silentstriker]

Originally Posted by HGB1892

How many of Tendulkar's tons have come on ridiculously flat pitches in India? Quite a few i'd bet. I'm not slagging Sachin by the way, i just think that Ponting would edge him in an even contest IMHO.

Tendulkar (away): 26 out of 47 centuries, average of 55.5
Ponting (away): 16 out of 39 centuries, average 49.2

[GingerFurball]

If Shane Warne had emerged as a force as he did c. 1993/94 2-3 years ago, and Australia were gearing up for a tour of India, there's no way that Tendulkar now would do the same as he did in 1998.

[Migara]

Originally Posted by GingerFurball

If Shane Warne had emerged as a force as he did c. 1993/94 2-3 years ago, and Australia were gearing up for a tour of India, there's no way that Tendulkar now would do the same as he did in 1998.

Nah, Warne would have still been smashed out of the attack by Sidhu and Azhar, who were exactly the ones who wrote the script about how Warne should be played even in later series.

[GingerFurball]

Originally Posted by HGB1892

How many of Tendulkar's tons have come on ridiculously flat pitches in India? Quite a few i'd bet. I'm not slagging Sachin by the way, i just think that Ponting would edge him in an even contest IMHO.

Less than the number of tons Ponting has scored on ridiculous flat pitches in Australia.

Tendulkar has scored over half of his tons away from home, averages close to 60 in Australia and over 60 in England, and averages almost exactly outside India what he averages in India.

If Indian pitches were so easy, Ponting would have a better average in India as well.

The "all subcontinental pitches are flat and easy to score runs on" argument is an extremely lazy one.

[AaronK]

You all remember M. Yousuf breaking Viv Richards record of making the most runs in a year..To me the discussion of comparing Sachin to Pointing goes the same direction as Sir Viv vs. yousuf.. Is yousuf as good or even better than Sir Viv considering that he has a better average too.. the answer is noo.. yess yousuf made all those runs in a year but he didn't face quality bowling.. he didn't bat tanciously as Sir Viv.. and most importantly he will never have a counter attack style that Sir Viv had.. as a cricket fan, I enjoy those batsman who single handedly dominate the bowlers..Sir Viv used to do that to any bowler that he faced.. Has yousuf ever done this in his whole career.. maybe in a few ocations... but certianly he didn't make a career out of it..

Ponting may have been very lucky that he didn't face the likes of McGrath and Shane Warne.. He didn't face guys like Walsh, Ambrose, Wasim, Waqar and Donald at their peak..Sachin faced all of these bowlers at their peak.. he scored alot of runs of them.. So if Ponting would have faced these bowlers and still managed to keep the record he has now.. then he deserved to overtake Sachin's record..

[Migara]

Originally Posted by GingerFurball

The "all subcontinental pitches are flat and easy to score runs on" argument is an extremely lazy one.

And used when they clutch for the straws as well

[silentstriker]

Originally Posted by GingerFurball

If Shane Warne had emerged as a force as he did c. 1993/94 2-3 years ago, and Australia were gearing up for a tour of India, there's no way that Tendulkar now would do the same as he did in 1998.

Yes, performance of him and Sidhu (let's not forget him) was orgasmic. This was when Warne had nightmares about Sachin.

There was a story Shane Warne told about this after he retired:

In 1998, Warne was bowling to Sachin, the ball landed perfectly, spun ferociously and Warne thought it was a wicket for sure. The next thing he knows, Tendulkar nonchalantly got on his knees and hit it against the spin for a boundary.

Taylor came upto Shane after that, and asked: "What do we do now, mate?" And Warne said, "We lose." I don't know how much truth there is in that story, and Warne likes to tell some good ones, but it pretty much epitomized Tendulkar at his peak.

[silentstriker]

Originally Posted by AaronK

You all remember M. Yousuf breaking Viv Richards record of making the most runs in a year..To me the discussion of comparing Sachin to Pointing goes the same direction as Sir Viv vs. yousuf.. Is yousuf as good or even better than Sir Viv considering that he has a better average too.. the answer is noo.. yess yousuf made all those runs in a year but he didn't face quality bowling.. he didn't bat tanciously as Sir Viv.. and most importantly he will never have a counter attack style that Sir Viv had.. as a cricket fan, I enjoy those batsman who single handedly dominate the bowlers..Sir Viv used to do that to any bowler that he faced.. Has yousuf ever done this in his whole career.. maybe in a few ocations... but certianly he didn't make a career out of it..

Ponting may have been very lucky that he didn't face the likes of McGrath and Shane Warne.. He didn't face guys like Walsh, Ambrose, Wasim, Waqar and Donald at their peak..Sachin faced all of these bowlers at their peak.. he scored alot of runs of them.. So if Ponting would have faced these bowlers and still managed to keep the record he has now.. then he deserved to overtake Sachin's record..

Being worse than someone doesn't mean you don't deserve the record!


Bradman had the record for most centuries until Gavaskar overtook him. That doesn't mean Gavaskar was a better batsman than Bradman! No one is saying that passing him means Gavaskar was better all of a sudden. That also doesn't mean the feat was undeserved!

[Cruxdude]

I think Sachin might just be pushing clear of Ponting. It will be a great effort from Ponting to claim the record now and if he does it he will deserve it. Really hoping that he doesn't though.

[Sir Alex]

Evidence of Sachin dominating Warne outnumbers the opposite. I cannot in fact recollect the last time when Warne indeed 'troubled' Tendulkar. And to say when the faced off against each other in no fewer than 5 series is pretty much saying it.