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Thread: Are wicket keepers allrounders

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    School Boy/Girl Cricketer Dano.85's Avatar
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    Are wicket keepers allrounders

    After a quick flick through the best 4 allrounders i see no one as yet picked a wk. The days of being picked as a wk on your glovework alone are long gone. In years gone if your wk could avg over 30 that was a massive bonus, nowadays if they dont they are dropped. I am a wk opening the batting for my club and i think that i am a allrounder, i class my self as a keeper/batsman. Or as some young player at our clubs says can any mug keep wicket? I did try to add a poll but it didnt get published on the thread?
    Last edited by Dano.85; 15-02-2010 at 04:42 AM.
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    State Regular GuyFromLancs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dano.85 View Post
    After a quick flick through the best 4 allrounders i see no one as yet picked a wk. The days of being picked as a wk on your glovework alone are long gone. In years gone if your wk could avg over 30 that was a massive bonus, nowadays if they dont they are dropped. I am a wk opening the batting for my club and i think that i am a allrounder, i class my self as a keeper/batsman. Or as some young player at our clubs says can any mug keep wicket?
    In their dream of finding a wicketkeeper who can bat, some teams have found themselves with players who can do neither very well.

    I would say Gilly and Sangakara were the only ones you could call allrounders. Having said that, I dislike the term for anyone who does not bat and bowl.
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    International Coach G.I.Joe's Avatar
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    Wk's are all rounders only if full time slip fielders are too.
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    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Who gets picked for their catching at 1st slip, apart from Mark Taylor in 96 and 97? He was so bad during that time, his batting didn't qualify him as an allrounder.
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    International Coach G.I.Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    Who gets picked for their catching at 1st slip, apart from Mark Taylor in 96 and 97? He was so bad during that time, his batting didn't qualify him as an allrounder.
    yeah, Imran wasn't a good bowler and batsman simultaneously either...

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    School Boy/Girl Cricketer Dano.85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuyFromLancs View Post
    In their dream of finding a wicketkeeper who can bat, some teams have found themselves with players who can do neither very well.

    I would say Gilly and Sangakara were the only ones you could call allrounders. Having said that, I dislike the term for anyone who does not bat and bowl.
    Thats my point, in england is prior the best gloveman no, is he the best keeper batsman maybe, but he needs both to get in the squad at the mo, and i would also put alec stewart up with the two you named.

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    School Boy/Girl Cricketer Dano.85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G.I.Joe View Post
    Wk's are all rounders only if full time slip fielders are too.
    If you can name one player who has ever been picked to play at test level for only his slip fielding alone then you might have a very small point. If you had a great slip fielder who avg 25 with the bat or an ok slip fielder who avg 45 the better batsman would be picked and the slip fielding would not come into thinking
    Last edited by Dano.85; 15-02-2010 at 05:16 AM.

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    International Vice-Captain Jungle Jumbo's Avatar
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    Solkar for his close catching?

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    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Funnily enough, all the arguments being put forward in favour of the notion that wicket keepers are allrounders are the exact arguments I'd use against it. Yes, it's becoming increasingly important for wicket keepers to be good batsmen, but that just means it's all part of the job description now. There are no specialist wicket keepers in Test cricket, but there are specialist batsmen and bowlers - wicket keeping alone is not a convincing specialist skill without batting to go along with it so a wicket-keeper who bats well is not performing a dual-role.

    With the likes of Flower and Sangakkara who batted in the top five, justified their selection as batsmen alone and kept wicket as well you could make an argument for it as they are indeed playing a dual-role: batsman and wk/batsman. Someone batting seven and keeping wicket really isn't an allrounder though, even if he bats exceptionally well like Gilchrist, because batting seven and batting to a decent standard is part and parcel of the greater wicket-keeping in this day and age.
    Last edited by Prince EWS; 15-02-2010 at 05:30 AM.
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    School Boy/Girl Cricketer Dano.85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Funnily enough, all the arguments being put forward in favour of the notion that wicket keepers are allrounders are the exact arguments I'd use against it. Yes, it's becoming increasingly important for wicket keepers to be good batsmen, but that just means it's all part of the job description now. There are no specialist wicket keepers in Test cricket, but there are specialist batsmen and bowlers - wicket keeping alone is not a convincing specialist skill without batting to go along with it so a wicket-keeper who bats well is not performing a dual-role.

    With the likes of Flower and Sangakkara who batted in the top five, justified their selection as batsmen alone and kept wicket as well you could make an argument for it as they are indeed playing a dual-role: batsman and wk/batsman. Someone batting seven and keeping wicket really isn't an allrounder though, even if he bats exceptionally well like Gilchrist, because batting seven and batting to a decent standard is part and parcel of the greater wicket-keeping in this day and age.
    Iam not saying all wicket keeper batsman are allrounders, there are some so-called allrounders out there that would only get in there squad as a bat or as a bowler and not both.

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    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dano.85 View Post
    Iam not saying all wicket keeper batsman are allrounders, there are some so-called allrounders out there that would only get in there squad as a bat or as a bowler and not both.
    Yeah, but they are still performing a dual-role. Whether or not they're the best available for either role aside, they still do both specialist roles. Wicket-keeping within itself isn't a specialist job anymore - batting middle/lower order and keeping is one player role as wicket keeping with no batting expectations doesn't exist in Test cricket. If Dhoni batted #4 for example I could see justification for him being called an allrounder, but he doesn't.

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    School Boy/Girl Cricketer Dano.85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Yeah, but they are still performing a dual-role. Whether or not they're the best available for either role aside, they still do both specialist roles. Wicket-keeping within itself isn't a specialist job anymore - batting middle/lower order and keeping is one player role as wicket keeping with no batting expectations doesn't exist in Test cricket. If Dhoni batted #4 for example I could see justification for him being called an allrounder, but he doesn't.
    So you think any mug can keep wicket? And keeping wicket and batting in the same game is not dual role?
    Last edited by Dano.85; 15-02-2010 at 05:54 AM.

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    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dano.85 View Post
    So you think any mug can keep wicket? And keeping wicket and batting in the same game is not dual role?
    No, I don't think any mug can keep wicket; classic straw man there.

    It's not a dual role because no-one, in this day and age, ever gets picked just to keep wicket. You don't see wicket keepers batting eleven. Bowlers are often picked regardless of their batting ability and batsmen are often picked regardless of their bowling ability, but wicket keepers are never picked with complete disregard for their batting competancy. Being a decent batsman and contributing in the middle/lower order is part of the job description for any international wicket-keeper, so it's all part of the one greater role.

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    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dano.85 View Post
    So you think any mug can keep wicket?
    I believe Neil Pickup proves that case.
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    School Boy/Girl Cricketer Dano.85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    No, I don't think any mug can keep wicket; classic straw man there.

    It's not a dual role because no-one, in this day and age, ever gets picked just to keep wicket. You don't see wicket keepers batting eleven. Bowlers are often picked regardless of their batting ability and batsmen are often picked regardless of their bowling ability, but wicket keepers are never picked with complete disregard for their batting competancy. Being a decent batsman and contributing in the middle/lower order is part of the job description for any international wicket-keeper, so it's all part of the one greater role.
    If you keep wicket and bat you preform a 2d role, it does not matter that we have to do both, allrounder preform a 2d role its the same. And to say keeping is not a specialist role well i just dont buy it, you dont pick the 7 best batsman and then stick some gloves on one and say good luck.

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