Who Is The Better Captain? Smith or Ponting?

[Himannv]

I'm surprised that so many underrate Ponting as a captain. He's really not that bad.

 

[SeamUp]

I'm surprised that so many underrate Ponting as a captain. He's really not that bad.

There's not much between them. Its just that more people think that Smith edges out Ponting.

 

[Ikki]

I'm surprised that so many underrate Ponting as a captain. He's really not that bad.

Yes, I agree. And Ponting as leader who also leads with his playing - meaning not just tactical acumen - is the more valuable captain IMO.

The way he is getting this team through the mass clearance of yesteryear and looking again to be worthy of #1 with a whole set of different players is another thing that is hugely under-appreciated.

 

[Uppercut]

I don't think I do underrate Ponting, I certainly rate him higher than most do. But you're underrating Smith. I can't think of one element of captaincy Ponting is better at than Smith. Unless you count batting, and Smith when captain is even better at that than Ponting when captain.

What Ponting is doing currently in moulding together a new team is only what Smith has already done with massive success.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Yes, I agree. And Ponting as leader who also leads with his playing - meaning not just tactical acumen - is the more valuable captain IMO.

But Smith leads from the front quite well too.

 

[social]

Ponting by light years

He has won with great players and average players

SA are chokers and until they win a meaningful game then they're simply a reflection of their captain

Look at their recent history:

a. Champions Trophy - hopeless

b. World Cup - ditto

c. Needed to win 3rd test in Oz last year to claim no. 1 ranking against a team of novices - flogged

d. Needed to win test series vs Oz in SA against a team of novices to claim no. 1 ranking - flogged

Could go on but why bother as there is no comparison

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Winning two Tests and the series in England is a pretty meaningful performance under pressure. Especially the way South Africa won it. Australia choked there. Australia also, theoretically, choked in two Ashes series in England.

That said, cue minty bitterness.

 

[GIMH]

I see your Ashes defeats and raise you South Africa failing to beat us over Xmas

 

[Uppercut]

I see your Ashes defeats and raise you South Africa failing to beat us over Xmas

Draw=/defeat tbh.

 

[Ikki]

But Smith leads from the front quite well too.

Sure, didn't claim otherwise.

I don't think I do underrate Ponting, I certainly rate him higher than most do. But you're underrating Smith. I can't think of one element of captaincy Ponting is better at than Smith. Unless you count batting, and Smith when captain is even better at that than Ponting when captain.

Maybe, but not much better at some things if at all in others. And as for batting whilst captain; Ponting has Smith beat by a mile.

What Ponting is doing currently in moulding together a new team is only what Smith has already done with massive success.

No, I don't think Smith has done what Ponting is doing. Ponting lost dependancy on all-time greats and his influx of newbs, to my understanding, has been more rapid. These adjustments are things Smith didn't really have to worry about. Case in point; our bowling attack. When Mitchell Johnson is your most veteran bowler that says it all. Smith built up a team on low confidence while Ponting was asked to while still on top without the players that got him there yet with the same expectations. Two different worlds of pressure there.

Yet even now I'd say the teams are pretty even. In fact, let me be very honest; I think we're a bit better. It's something you have to watch to understand. People may point to weaker opposition lately or past results against teams but the team right now looks top notch. To go through only a few lean years, where we really weren't knocked off our perch so much as slid off, and are now meeting those same high standards again...well it's something Smith has not done TBH.

Also, I find it irksome that Ponting can accomplish so much as a captain and Smith relatively so little yet be compared like this.

 

[social]

Winning two Tests and the series in England is a pretty meaningful performance under pressure. Especially the way South Africa won it. Australia choked there. Australia also, theoretically, choked in two Ashes series in England.

That said, cue minty bitterness.

Multiple WCs

Multiple CTs

Multiple everything else

There is no comparison

IMO, Smith is lucky to still have a job (as is Ponting, but that's as a result of a slipping in standards rather than failure to achieve)

Smith should definitley get the punt if they lose this test vs India as it would simply be the latest example of him leading a far more talented team to defeat

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

One thing to consider too is that Ponting inherited a team with a history of getting the job done in the big games and at the big moments. Smith, however, inherited a team with a legacy of "choking". In that way you could argue that Ponting has not been faced with the same challenge of inspiration, because he's inherited a more thorough winning mentality. This shouldn't necessarily count against Ponting, but then it definitely should not count considerably against Smith either.

 

[Uppercut]

Multiple WCs

Multiple CTs

If we're bringing ODIs into this, it's a completely different question.

 

[Ikki]

One thing to consider too is that Ponting inherited a team with a history of getting the job done in the big games and at the big moments. Smith, however, inherited a team with a legacy of "choking". In that way you could argue that Ponting has not been faced with the same challenge of inspiration, because he's inherited a more thorough winning mentality. This shouldn't necessarily count against Ponting, but then it definitely should not count considerably against Smith either.

Don't think that's logical at all. When half your team are relative newbs, they're not inheriting much at all. They really aren't bringing anything material to the table other than a cliche or a stereotype.

In fact, this has been a topic of discussion amongst Australian fans that the players lack steel and consistency that they can only get through playing more. That they're already showing promise is a credit to themselves and to Ponting for giving them that confidence. They all really seem to back their captain too. You can have all the talent in the world but it's much easier integrating them one at a time rather than 2-3 at a time.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Don't think that's logical at all. When half your team are relative newbs, they're not inheriting much at all. They really aren't bringing anything material to the table other than a cliche or a stereotype.

Yes they are. There's a very distinct Australian champion mentality that runs through the ranks. It's an inherent confidence based on the knowledge of where Australia has been, and where it should be. From an outside perspective, and having watched cricketers perform a certain way at various levels.

There's no genuine precedent for that kind of confidence in South African cricket thus far.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

And before anyone brings it up, it's not the same situation as West Indies. Yes, West Indies has a past culture of such success that ordinarily should inspire an inherent confidence. But the difference is that, unlike Australia, WI hasn't had the infrastructure in place to support, maintain and nourish that culture of confidence.

 

[social]

Yes they are. There's a very distinct Australian champion mentality that runs through the ranks. It's an inherent confidence based on the knowledge of where Australia has been, and where it should be. From an outside perspective, and having watched cricketers perform a certain way at various levels.

There's no genuine precedent for that kind of confidence in South African cricket thus far.

And, IMO, Smith hasnt done anything to change that

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

And, IMO, Smith hasnt done anything to change that

My point being that it can't be an easy thing to change. And it's not something that Ponting has been faced with, so it shouldn't be used as something to lord over Smith.

 

[Ikki]

Yes they are. There's a very distinct Australian champion mentality that runs through the ranks. It's an inherent confidence based on the knowledge of where Australia has been, and where it should be. From an outside perspective, and having watched cricketers perform a certain way at various levels.

There's no genuine precedent for that kind of confidence in South African cricket thus far.

Sorry, but agree to disagree. The above for me is simply hogwash. You aren't a champion until you start winning for yourself. Using other people's sweat and toil for character traits others are yet to prove is just naive IMO. How do you know they have it? How do you know it wasn't Ponting that passed it onto them with his handling?

It makes no more sense than saying all Australian people have the mentality of champions because they have so many champion sportsmen.

And not only do I not agree with the stereotype you've given the Aussies, I disagree with the one you've given the S.Africans too. These things are not for the realms of serious discussion. Not that I don't think such things matter (mentality that is) but to prove who has it, who doesn't and to what extent...it's childish.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Sorry, but agree to disagree. The above for me is simply hogwash. You aren't a champion until you start winning for yourself. Using other people's sweat and toil for character traits others are yet to prove is just naive IMO. How do you know they have it? How do you know it wasn't Ponting that passed it onto them with his handling?

It makes no more sense than saying all Australian people have the mentality of champions because they have so many champion sportsmen.

And not only do I not agree with the stereotype you've given the Aussies, I disagree with the one you've given the S.Africans too. These things are not for the realms of serious discussion. Not that I don't think such things matter (mentality that is) but to prove who has it, who doesn't and to what extent...it's childish.

Definitely agree to disagree. Thanks for calling me childish though. Appreciate it.

Team sport btw. Success is not actually about individual champions.