Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 100
Like Tree1Likes

Thread: Michael Vaughan- Jekyll and Hyde?

  1. #16
    Cricketer Of The Year four_or_six's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    9,189
    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    His statuesque fielding surely deserves a mention
    Oh goodness, had almost forgotten about that.

  2. #17
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    2005
    Posts
    80,401
    Not surprising either - it's easily forgotten. Vaughan was never, even when his knees were at their worst, the sort of bad fielder whose bad fielding was obvious apart from when the ball went into (and often enough straight out of again) his hands. He was not a classically inept fielder like Tufnell or Malcolm, merely someone whose hands were woeful. His arm was OK and he was, while far from swift over the ground, certainly not slow.
    RD
    Appreciating cricket's greatest legend ever - HD Bird...............Funniest post (intentionally) ever.....Runner-up.....Third.....Fourth
    (Accidental) founder of Twenty20 Is Boring Society. Click and post to sign-up.
    chris.hinton: h
    FRAZ: Arshad's are a long gone stories
    RIP Fardin Qayyumi (AKA "cricket player"; "Bob"), 1/11/1990-15/4/2006

  3. #18
    Cricketer Of The Year four_or_six's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    9,189
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Not surprising either - it's easily forgotten. Vaughan was never, even when his knees were at their worst, the sort of bad fielder whose bad fielding was obvious apart from when the ball went into (and often enough straight out of again) his hands. He was not a classically inept fielder like Tufnell or Malcolm, merely someone whose hands were woeful. His arm was OK and he was, while far from swift over the ground, certainly not slow.
    I didn't mean it like that. He was a terrible catcher and just looked completely uncoordinated that made you wonder how on earth he was a sportsman.

  4. #19
    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Burgess Hill
    Posts
    8,991
    It's weird because most batsmen who have Vaughan's elegance and talent also make fine natural fielders. I can't think of any who don't.


  5. #20
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Locked up inside my opium den, surrounded by some Chinamen
    Posts
    45,221
    Most disappointing that he's turned into something of a rentagob so soon in his post-cricket media career too. I expected rather better from such an instinctive and wily captain.

    As an aside it's typical of the happenstance approach we seem to have towards long-term planning in this country that it was his batting form that secured him the captain's armband and ultimately his captaincy comfortably eclipsed his batting. We occasionally stumble into success despite rather than because of our system.
    Viscount Tom likes this.
    Cricket Web's 2013/14 Premier League Tipping Champion

    - As featured in The Independent.

    "as much a news event as an actual footballer, a worthy stop-start centre forward, but an all-time hyper-galactico when it comes to doing funny things with cars and hats, a player whose signing proves once again that the Premier League is still undoubtedly the best in the world when it comes to doing things with cars and hats."
    - Barney Ronay on Mario Balotelli

  6. #21
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    2005
    Posts
    80,401
    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    It's weird because most batsmen who have Vaughan's elegance and talent also make fine natural fielders. I can't think of any who don't.
    Nathan Astle? Was a decent-ish catcher but a pretty moderate outfielder from what I remember. Like Vaughan he suffered some chronic injury woes.

    Plenty go the other way though - Hussain and Collingwood to name a couple.

  7. #22
    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Burgess Hill
    Posts
    8,991
    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Most disappointing that he's turned into something of a rentagob so soon in his post-cricket media career too. I expected rather better from such an instinctive and wily captain.

    As an aside it's typical of the happenstance approach we seem to have towards long-term planning in this country that it was his batting form that secured him the captain's armband and ultimately his captaincy comfortably eclipsed his batting. We occasionally stumble into success despite rather than because of our system.
    Good points well made

  8. #23
    State Regular GuyFromLancs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Lancashire
    Posts
    946
    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    It's weird because most batsmen who have Vaughan's elegance and talent also make fine natural fielders. I can't think of any who don't.
    Muhammed Yousef. But I agree with the general point you make. Vaughan was not an assured catcher. His autobiography acknowledges that he never corrected the dodgy catching technique he had since he was a kid.

  9. #24
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Cricket
    Posts
    16,845
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Not all that often, but when he did it looked so horrendous that it stuck firmly in the mind.

    Anyway as those who've been here for a while know I wrote an article on Vaughan upon his retirement which those who haven't read it and wish to can find here. Basically says much of what has been said so far - he was viewed as a once-in-a-generation player at age-group level because when he played well he looked sensational, and ended-up nothing of the sort at higher ones because of the fact that he couldn't play well anywhere near so often as he was believed to be capable of by many.

    I for one don't believe the England captaincy remotely affected his batting as what happened throughout his captaincy had been happening for years beforehand as well. But the captaincy allowed him a second string to his bow and means he'll rightly always be recalled with great fondness by those who supported England during 2004 and 2005.
    We have had this argument before & you know how it goes. I certainly think captaincy & his knee injurry post Ashes 05 affected his batting ever so slightly. For me Vaughan started to look a different player after his 156 vs SA @ Birmingham 03.

    I've always been of the view if he never became captain & was allowed to play mainly as batsman he could have easily had 25 hundreds & averaged close to 50.

  10. #25
    Cricketer Of The Year four_or_six's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    9,189
    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Most disappointing that he's turned into something of a rentagob so soon in his post-cricket media career too. I expected rather better from such an instinctive and wily captain.
    Yes, was very disappointed with his commentary on TMS. Didn't find him that insightful, compared to say, Nasser or Athers.

  11. #26
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    2005
    Posts
    80,401
    Quote Originally Posted by aussie View Post
    For me Vaughan started to look a different player after his 156 vs SA @ Birmingham 03.
    If the player he looked after that knock didn't so closely resemble the player he looked up to September 2002 I'd be less sceptical of the captaincy's impact.

  12. #27
    State Regular L Trumper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    906
    Well I think once his purple patch is over he is in the middle of building a team that might have hindered his concentration towards batting and might resulted in him not being attain the heights of 02-03 although he did have a good innings time and again and after knee injury he had to concentrate more on lot other things and by end of 08 seaason he kinda lost it.
    Still averaging more than 50 with out captaincy make one think that captaincy did effected him whether its true or not.

  13. #28
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Uppercut's Avatar
    Tournaments Won: 1
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    .
    Posts
    23,663
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    If the player he looked after that knock didn't so closely resemble the player he looked up to September 2002 I'd be less sceptical of the captaincy's impact.
    Indeed. He just reverted to what he'd been for his entire career.

    The real question is why he was so good for that short period of time. And personally, I don't think there's any need to look for a reason for that either. It would be an incredible statistical phenomenon if he played at exactly the same level for his entire career.
    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    The Filth have comfortably the better bowling. But the Gash have the batting. Might be quite good to watch.

  14. #29
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Cricket
    Posts
    16,845
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    If the player he looked after that knock didn't so closely resemble the player he looked up to September 2002 I'd be less sceptical of the captaincy's impact.
    Would have to disagree with that since Sept 2002 was part of peak period.

    Vaughan test career went like this IMO:

    - SA 99/00 to NZ 01/02: Decent young bat who was showing glimpses that he could be a good top batsman for ENG in the future. I was actually at OT when he scored to sexy hundred for Pakistan 01.

    - SRI 02 to SA 03 (the Birmigham test). As soon as he began opening he peaked & for this period he produced argubably the best batting by an Englisham in the last 20 years.

    - Then he became captain & he tended to blow hot & cold as a batsman. Certain odd technical flaws crept in i.e him being bowled off-stump alot, then came his knee injury post PAK 05 & Vaughan never was the same again.

  15. #30
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Furball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Anyone But England
    Posts
    20,144
    I think the captaincy affected his batting, but not to any great extent. I'd have backed him to average maybe 40, as opposed to 37, in the period where he was skipper.

Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •