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Thread: Did India Waste Their Talent

  1. #1
    State Regular GuyFromLancs's Avatar
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    Did India Waste Their Talent

    I've been watching cricket for almost 20 years and for much of that time Australia have been a clear division above the rest. Certainly since about 1996 anyway, but when we look back in another 10-15 years I think many will look at the great individual talent India has had, with the bat certainly, but never really made it work as a unit as they should.

    If you look at the Aussies in the past 15 years they have had-

    Mark Waugh
    Steve Waugh
    Mark Taylor
    Matt Hayden
    Ricky Ponting
    Michael Slater
    Damien Martyn
    Adam Gilchrist

    But India have been the only team to match or even pass them on pure talent-

    Tendulka
    Dravid
    Ganguly
    Sehwag
    Azharuddin
    Laxman
    Dhoni
    and more I have no doubt forgot

    They even had two genuinly world class spinners in Kumble and Singh (although Australia destroy them in the seam bowling department).

    As an Englishman who has spent years watching us get trounced off the Aussies, I was always a wee bit disappointed India with their great raw ingrediants did not do more for themselves in the period.

    First post by the way, hope everyone is good.

  2. #2
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Mr Mxyzptlk's Avatar
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    Welcome to CW.

    Surely the disparity between the results of the two countries is primarily down to the quality of developmental/domestic systems in place. And, as you've acknowledged, Australia's pace resources have always been better than those of India's. Considering that they were ahead back then, in that regard, it's no surprise that they've stayed ahead.

    Waste of talent? In a sense, I suppose. But I'd be interested to hear from more knowledgeable posters what the reasons are for such a disparity in the strength of domestic cricket. Some would appear to be obvious, but surely India's domestic cricket should be a lot stronger than it is, given how much money is available.
    Sreesanth said, "Next ball he was beaten and I said, 'is this the King Charles Lara? Who is this impostor, moving around nervously? I should have kept my mouth shut for the next ball - mind you, it was a length ball - Lara just pulled it over the church beyond the boundary! He is a true legend."


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    International Debutant Cruxdude's Avatar
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    The thing with the Indian batting talent is that most were not at their peak in the 90s. Dravid made his debut in 96 but it was not till 1999 and later that he became the wall that he is now.

    Laxman of the 90s was a sad case. He used to plunder the domestic attacks but the only position he ever got was that of an opener and he was constantly under pressure because of some crappy selectors. Azhar was not a great player outside the subcontinent.

    Sehwag came much later. Ganguly was a decent test batsman nothing more. The rest of the batsmen who made up the Indian batting weren't much. Sidhu outside India bad. Manjrekar was decent but nowhere near a great. Mongia as an opener was always a fail.

    So for most of the 90s the team was full of poor batsmen or batsmen who were finding their feet in international cricket.

    There is nothing to be written about the Indian bowlers. It was embarrassing watching India bowl overseas.

    Tendulkar alone was the reason India watched cricket in the 90s.

  4. #4
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Mr Mxyzptlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruxdude View Post
    Ganguly was a decent test batsman nothing more.
    Almost 2500 runs at about 50, with 7 hundreds and 12 fifties in 32 matches. Probably a bit harsh to call him just "decent".


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    International Debutant Cruxdude's Avatar
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    Thought the post was about India of the 90s.

    India in the 2000s has been solid in batting and only recently has got the fire power in the bowling to bowl out teams regularly. Pundits may say a lot about India's bowling but this is the best shape it has been in. If we had had this attack since the early 2000s the results could have been better.

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    Request Your Custom Title Now! Mr Mxyzptlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruxdude View Post
    Thought the post was about India of the 90s.
    Those were his stats by the end of 1999...

    EDIT: Thought you were responding to my Ganguly point.
    Last edited by Mr Mxyzptlk; 02-02-2010 at 02:22 PM. Reason: Oops...

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    International Debutant Cruxdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Mxyzptlk View Post
    Almost 2500 runs at about 50, with 7 hundreds and 12 fifties in 32 matches. Probably a bit harsh to call him just "decent".
    Yeah my judgement of him is being coloured by his batting when he was a captain. But Sachin and a young Ganguly with no bowling to speak of was never going to win many matches.

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    State Regular GuyFromLancs's Avatar
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    I hear what you say about the domestic game, but it's not as if India have not produced the raw talent needed despite those differences. Even their individual batting averages compare well but they seemed to lack the fundamental unity of the Aussies (who had a spirit more comparable to a Rugby team) and it was a lack of unity, or passion, or will, or something that meant they never climbed to the top.

    Shame really, most of the Indian batsman I named would probably make an all time England XI.

  9. #9
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Mr Mxyzptlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruxdude View Post
    Yeah my judgement of him is being coloured by his batting when he was a captain. But Sachin and a young Ganguly with no bowling to speak of was never going to win many matches.
    And while the bowling has improved, India still does not produce quality fast bowlers at the same rate and level of Australia. Needless to say. The difference in conditions may just have something to do with it though.

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    Request Your Custom Title Now! Mr Mxyzptlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuyFromLancs View Post
    I hear what you say about the domestic game, but it's not as if India have not produced the raw talent needed despite those differences.
    On the contrary, no matter how talented players are, if the system is not in place to develop them those players are always unlikely to become Test class. Talent is just one piece in the puzzle.

    It's a similar problem to West Indies, where abundance of talent cannot overcome the glaring inadequacies in administration and development.

  11. #11
    State Regular GuyFromLancs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruxdude View Post
    Thought the post was about India of the 90s.

    India in the 2000s has been solid in batting and only recently has got the fire power in the bowling to bowl out teams regularly. Pundits may say a lot about India's bowling but this is the best shape it has been in. If we had had this attack since the early 2000s the results could have been better.

    This generation of India players now, old and less old. They overlap in the same way Warne overlapped with Clarke and Ponting with Waugh etc. You'd be lucky to find a team where everyone was the same age.

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    International Debutant Cruxdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Mxyzptlk View Post
    And while the bowling has improved, India still does not produce quality fast bowlers at the same rate and level of Australia. Needless to say. The difference in conditions may just have something to do with it though.
    Yeah true and I don't see India doing that also in the future. But I will be happy with an Ishant in full flow, Zaheer at his canny best and Sreesanth like he bowled against Srilanka.

  13. #13
    International Debutant Cruxdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuyFromLancs View Post
    This generation of India players now, old and less old. They overlap in the same way Warne overlapped with Clarke and Ponting with Waugh etc. You'd be lucky to find a team where everyone was the same age.
    True. But I am confident we will have some good batsmen in the future too. The domestic scene for batsmen is pretty promising.

  14. #14
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Mr Mxyzptlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruxdude View Post
    Ishant in full flow, Zaheer at his canny best and Sreesanth like he bowled against Srilanka.
    Unfortunately none of those things happen very often. And there's also no genuine depth behind that inconsistent pack, which may be considered even more disconcerting.

  15. #15
    State Regular GuyFromLancs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Mxyzptlk View Post
    Unfortunately none of those things happen very often. And there's also no genuine depth behind that inconsistent pack, which may be considered even more disconcerting.
    Very true. In my near two decades watching test cricket i've yet to see India produce one real world class seamer. Not even Sinrath fitted this bracket.

    Numerous great batsmen, 1 great spinner, another very good one, 0 top class seamers. What would India have done even for someone of Vaas' ability and longevity in the past 15 years?
    Last edited by GuyFromLancs; 02-02-2010 at 02:50 PM.

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