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What is an acceptable, or even good, strike rate for batsmen in ODIs?

Sir Alex

Banned
How about taking out Africa/Asia matches and matches against minnows? No way is Brendon McCullum the 13th best ODI bat over the last 2 years.

Edit: had no idea that Dhoni's SR was as low as that, I know he's refined his game somewhat but I thought he was still striking at around 90.
Code:
[B]SL	Player			Mat	Runs	 Avg 	 SR 	 Superavg [/B]
1	V Sehwag (India) 	45	1856	 43.16 	 123.81  53.44 
2	S Chanderpaul (WI) 	30	1311	 69.00 	 75.91 	 52.38 
3	MS Dhoni (India) 	85	3047	 53.45 	 82.17 	 43.92 
4	SR Tendulkar (India) 	55	2543	 49.86 	 86.82 	 43.29 
5	MEK Hussey (Aus) 	57	1910	 50.26 	 85.42 	 42.93 
6	SK Raina (India) 	50	1394	 43.56 	 95.02 	 41.39 
7	TM Dilshan (SL) 	53	1847	 41.97 	 95.60 	 40.12 
8	CH Gayle (WI) 		30	1180	 42.14 	 95.16 	 40.10 
9	Salman Butt (Pak) 	37	1645	 48.38 	 80.95 	 39.16 
10	AB de Villiers (SA) 	41	1410	 45.48 	 84.12 	 38.26 
11	SR Watson (Aus) 	33	1314	 45.31 	 83.85 	 37.99 
12	GC Smith (SA) 		30	1229	 43.89 	 83.60 	 36.69 
13	Yuvraj Singh (India) 	79	2667	 39.80 	 91.61 	 36.46 
14	Mohammad Yousuf (Pak) 	37	1336	 46.06 	 78.54 	 36.18 
15	PD Collingwood (Eng) 	51	1503	 39.55 	 85.88 	 33.97 
16	Misbah-ul-Haq (Pak) 	38	1066	 39.48 	 85.76 	 33.86 
17	BB McCullum (NZ) 	47	1563	 37.21 	 90.87 	 33.81 
18	G Gambhir (India) 	74	2452	 38.31 	 87.47 	 33.51 
19	RT Ponting (Aus) 	53	1956	 40.75 	 80.79 	 32.92 
20	BJ Haddin (Aus) 	35	1058	 37.78 	 85.46 	 32.29 
21	HH Gibbs (SA) 		33	1203	 36.45 	 86.67 	 31.59 
22	Shoaib Malik (Pak) 	46	1388	 36.52 	 82.56 	 30.15 
23	KC Sangakkara (SL) 	60	2140	 37.54 	 79.14 	 29.71 
24	OA Shah (Eng) 		51	1519	 35.32 	 82.06 	 28.98 
25	JH Kallis (SA) 		34	1114	 38.41 	 74.61 	 28.66 
26	Younis Khan (Pak) 	44	1514	 36.04 	 76.77 	 27.67 
27	IR Bell (Eng) 		34	1094	 35.29 	 78.03 	 27.54 
28	MJ Clarke (Aus) 	53	1763	 39.17 	 69.84 	 27.36 
29	KP Pietersen (Eng) 	43	1153	 33.91 	 80.57 	 27.32 
30	ST Jayasuriya (SL) 	50	1363	 27.81 	 96.80 	 26.92 
31	Kamran Akmal (Pak) 	46	1081	 29.21 	 88.67 	 25.90 
32	LRPL Taylor (NZ) 	47	1122	 32.05 	 76.69 	 24.58 
33	DPMD Jayawardene (SL) 	60	1672	 30.40 	 78.16 	 23.76 
34	Tamim Iqbal (Ban) 	39	1029	 26.38 	 75.60 	 19.94
Those are figures for matches involving present test sides. Again the cut off is 1000 runs.
 

Sir Alex

Banned
Dhoni's SR is understandably lower because he has good strikers of the ball like Yuvraj, Raina etc on the other side. Yet it is not abysmal either. Also there have been many ocassions when Dhoni had to come in with India tottering at 50-3 or whereabouts and had to build the team innings so that also has affected his SR.
 

G.I.Joe

International Coach
It is a reasonable measure, you could look at Jayasuriya's career average of 32 and wonder why he's an all time ODI great.
He's an all time ODI great because of his bowling in addition to those batting achievements. Take away the bowling, and he's statistically no better than Sehwag, except for the longevity of course.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
He's an all time ODI great because of his bowling in addition to those batting achievements. Take away the bowling, and he's statistically no better than Sehwag, except for the longevity of course.
He's also a great for revolutionising the approach to opening in ODIs.
 

Sir Alex

Banned
He's an all time ODI great because of his bowling in addition to those batting achievements. Take away the bowling, and he's statistically no better than Sehwag, except for the longevity of course.
It is pretty cruel because he was one of the chief reasons why SL became the ODI powerhouse in the 90s and won WC 1996. He is definitely past his peak now but his performances with the bat were superior to Sehwag's ODI batting displays.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Dhoni's SR is understandably lower because he has good strikers of the ball like Yuvraj, Raina etc on the other side. Yet it is not abysmal either. Also there have been many ocassions when Dhoni had to come in with India tottering at 50-3 or whereabouts and had to build the team innings so that also has affected his SR.
Wasn't criticising Dhoni in anyway, he's the best ODI batsman around, just thought it would have been higher, it suprised me to see a SR in the mid 80s.
 

G.I.Joe

International Coach
It is pretty cruel because he was one of the chief reasons why SL became the ODI powerhouse in the 90s and won WC 1996. He is definitely past his peak now but his performances with the bat were superior to Sehwag's ODI batting displays.
Thats an argument against using the average x SR. Ponting has been a more crucial player than Sehwag in World Cups by a greater margin than Jayasuriya has been, yet Sehwag places at 1. You get a better idea of a batsmans worth by simply looking at the average and SR as two separate but equally relevant statistics, than by marrying them into one.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Thats an argument against using the average x SR. Ponting has been a more crucial player than Sehwag in World Cups by a greater margin than Jayasuriya has been, yet Sehwag places at 1. You get a better idea of a batsmans worth by simply looking at the average and SR as two separate but equally relevant statistics, than by marrying them into one.
Yeah, but Sir Alex's ratings are based on what people have done since the World Cup.
 

Sir Alex

Banned
Thats an argument against using the average x SR. Ponting has been a more crucial player than Sehwag in World Cups by a greater margin than Jayasuriya has been, yet Sehwag places at 1. You get a better idea of a batsmans worth by simply looking at the average and SR as two separate but equally relevant statistics, than by marrying them into one.
I have taken data only from end of last WC!
 

G.I.Joe

International Coach
Yeah, but the same calculations done over their entire careers would then put Ponting and Sehwag on level, which should not be the case by any stretch of imagination.
 

Sir Alex

Banned
Yeah, but the same calculations done over their entire careers would then put Ponting and Sehwag on level, which should not be the case by any stretch of imagination.
GI Joe, let's see this way. Just if you analyse Gautam Gambhir's test figures with Tendulkar's test average, one might be tempted to say Gambhir is a better player, but that would be laughable if one takes into account the longetivity. So that is applicable to all players.

I am merely trying to make SR a better tool than it is now by including the average factor as well. I am no way claiming it is the ultimate indictor to judge a player. It is far more suitable for comparisons in the short run defined by runs and period than over whole careers.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Yeah, but the same calculations done over their entire careers would then put Ponting and Sehwag on level, which should not be the case by any stretch of imagination.
That's because it's a fairly simple statistical measure, it's actually quite useful as a snapshot over a short period of time.
 

G.I.Joe

International Coach
GI Joe, let's see this way. Just if you analyse Gautam Gambhir's test figures with Tendulkar's test average, one might be tempted to say Gambhir is a better player, but that would be laughable if one takes into account the longetivity. So that is applicable to all players.

I am merely trying to make SR a better tool than it is now by including the average factor as well. I am no way claiming it is the ultimate indictor to judge a player. It is far more suitable for comparisons in the short run defined by runs and period than over whole careers.
How are you making SR a better tool? People already look at average and SR as a set of two parameters. Looking at them separately tells us more about a player than seeing a product of the two. You can compare Ponting and Sehwag far better with the two kept as they are, rather than by their product which works out to be the same for both and tells us nothing about what makes them different. You have no way of knowing if 1800 denotes a player who consistently scores 6 off 2, or one who scores 22 off 27. It brings us back to square one where you need to look at both stats individually. Its not an improvement if it hides more than it reveals.
 

Sir Alex

Banned
How are you making SR a better tool? People already look at average and SR as a set of two parameters. Looking at them separately tells us more about a player than seeing a product of the two. You can compare Ponting and Sehwag far better with the two kept as they are, rather than by their product which works out to be the same for both and tells us nothing about what makes them different. You have no way of knowing if 1800 denotes a player who consistently scores 6 off 2, or one who scores 22 off 27. It brings us back to square one where you need to look at both stats individually. Its not an improvement if it hides more than it reveals.
A good counterpoint but as I said above my analysis is defined by "min" runs and "period". The runs factor should solve to some extent the 6 X 3 argument. (1000 runs are the cut off here)
Do you think anybody's positions are grossly misrepresented in the table I quoted above?
 

Sir Alex

Banned
No, but then the average and SR seen separately still tell us more, don't they?
It gives merely different information. One gives A scores/likely will score more per match than B, the other gives A scores faster than B. The superavg gives A is likely to have more impact on a match with the bat than B.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
A good counterpoint but as I said above my analysis is defined by "min" runs and "period". The runs factor should solve to some extent the 6 X 3 argument. (1000 runs are the cut off here)
Do you think anybody's positions are grossly misrepresented in the table I quoted above?
Suresh Raina. No way he's better than Yuvraj and Gambhir.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Its not free of flaws either tbh. It puts Sehwag and Ponting at the same level (34.4 x 100 = 43 x 80), when I'd say Ponting is a better ODI batsman than Sehwag.
Sehwag has mostly been dreadful in ODIs though - only recently and in 2002 has he begun to look like a genuine proposition. If he keeps up his form of late for the next 4-5 years I'd say he might possibly be fairly regarded as better than Ponting. Right now it's an apples-oranges case - one batsman's career record gives a surprisingly accurate representation; the other's gives the usual no-real-indication-at-all.

In ODIs essentially strike-rate is only a worthy consideration once the average reaches a certain level. Shahid Afridi's astronomical strike-rate is no real credit to him given that his average is so exceedingly low. Ditto Ricardo Powell. For a fair while the same was true of Andrew Symonds.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
It is a reasonable measure, you could look at Jayasuriya's career average of 32 and wonder why he's an all time ODI great.
That has more to do with his average as an opener of 35-36 at a SR of ~90, which is a quite phenomenal performance, especially over 15 years or so.
 

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