John Howard to head ICC?

[jeevan]

Oh please, don't quote the wikipedia here. Please list of his achievements as a cricket administrator or for that matter kho-kho administrator.

Now that I looked up wikipedia, I see that he also done six other things in sports administration that I was not aware of. BTW I think Sharad Pawar has done a decent job of promoting BCCI's interests - in getting a more proportionate share of attention in ICC decision making to it's revenue contribution (this is strictly BCCI point of view, that's all a BCCI admin has to be measured on, others will see it as throwing weight around and frankly it is). He's also worked to cool tempers in some of the controversies, specifically Ganguly's exclusion and Sydneygate. Raised compensation (IPL, regular tournaments) for Indian cricketers.

Revolutionary, he is not. Competent administrator, he is. Main point is, he has taken time out from his political career to do this for 20+ years and didn't just walk into the ICC presidency based on being a significant Indian political figure.

Sanz, now let me ask you to back up your assertion. Why is Sharad Pawar any less qualified as a sports administrator than previous occupants of ICC positions. And what has he made worse during his tenure (in Kho kho or cricket administration) that lowers the bar for just about any ex-politician to come in. You can look up wikipedia if you have to.

 

[jeevan]

I have no doubt he has but this would be minescule compared to Howards experience in dealing with leaders of countries and far more complex issues than organising a cricket series.

I'm willing to listen to any reasonable discussion about where Anderson may be more skilled than Howard but to say just because he was chairman of NZ Cricket for 15 years, and has been on the ICC executive really dosent cut the mustard for me. i'm sorry but I dont think many people know what the job entails and have just taken the opportunity to jump on the bandwagon to take potshots at Howard. Some of these people are even refering back to 1980 and even then have got it completely wrong.

You've just pointed out a potential downside to John Howard. Events are invariably hosted by their respective cricket boards, who should be working with their governments for the requisite security arrangements.ICC should be working with that board, not the government and certainly not the head of the government.

If Howard is going to pick up the phone to the Indian PM, for e.g. and bypass all normal procedures - I'm afraid it will count against him and not for. No institution is worth diluting or destroying for an individual who is going to be in charge for 2 years.

 

[Sanz]

Could you be more clearer what you mean by "achievements"? Mumbai won Ranji trophies when he was Prez am not sure that is the kind you are looking for.

And Australia won 3 World Cups during the time Howard was Prime Minister and they were the best team for pretty much his entire terms.

 

[Sanz]

Sanz, now let me ask you to back up your assertion. Why is Sharad Pawar any less qualified as a sports administrator than previous occupants of ICC positions. And what has he made worse during his tenure (in Kho kho or cricket administration) that lowers the bar for just about any ex-politician to come in. You can look up wikipedia if you have to.

India's performance in the WC, worst performance ever, worst performance in Champions Trophy, bringing back Ganguly purely as a political move.

 

[howardj]

And Australia won 3 World Cups during the time Howard was Prime Minister and they were the best team for pretty much his entire terms.

Indeed.

They were salad cricketing days during Howard's tenure.

By contrast, our cricket during the 1980s was **** house.

 

[jeevan]

India's performance in the WC, worst performance ever, worst performance in Champions Trophy, bringing back Ganguly purely as a political move.

Since you blame BCCI administrators for poor performance in WC,CT - would you credit them for improving in tests for e.g. (or the T20I world series win, also in Pawar's tenure).

If Ganguly's return indeed was a political one, it certainly paid off well in on-field results.

 

[jeevan]

And Australia won 3 World Cups during the time Howard was Prime Minister and they were the best team for pretty much his entire terms.

And he also clearly failed to develop or find replacements for Warne, McGrath during his prime ministership, by this logic.

 

[Sanz]

Since you blame BCCI administrators for poor performance in WC,CT - would you credit them for improving in tests for e.g. (or the T20I world series win, also in Pawar's tenure).

T20 Yes, but Not The Tests, None of the players were groomed by his management. Otoh 2007 WC was a disaster because of the team selection made by his team of selectors, who picked spent force like Kumble, Ganguly etc. None of them were good enough to play ODIs.

If Ganguly's return indeed was a political one, it certainly paid off well in on-field results.

Not in the first instance. Second time yes, but second time around Ganguly was playing well enough. His Performance in ODIs was very poor since his return.

 

[Sanz]

And he also clearly failed to develop or find replacements for Warne, McGrath during his prime ministership, by this logic.

As If Pawar has left a talent pool of World Class bowlers to replace Kumble and numerous Dravids and Sachin Tendulkars lined up after their retirement.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Indeed.

They were salad cricketing days during Howard's tenure.

By contrast, our cricket during the 1980s was **** house.

 

[Sanz]

Can't believe we have Indians defending an incompetent politician like Sharad Pawar, whose incompetency as an Union Minster is pretty well known, all one needs to do is take up a newspaper and read.

Pawar's only quality is his ability to make deals and always remain in power. It can be seen with the deal he made with David Morgan to become ICC President, it can be seen in the deals he made with a radical like Thackeray for IPL. All one needs is to open his eyes and read some history book on Maharashtra Politics. He has done it all.

 

[jeevan]

Can't believe we have Indians defending an incompetent politician like Sharad Pawar, whose incompetency as an Union Minster is pretty well known, all one needs to do is take up a newspaper and read.

Pawar's only quality is his ability to make deals and always remain in power. It can be seen with the deal he made with David Morgan to become ICC President, it can be seen in the deals he made with a radical like Thackeray for IPL. All one needs is to open his eyes and read some history book on Maharashtra Politics. He has done it all.

First of all, we're not talking of Pawar the politician but of Pawar the sports and cricket administrator.

Second of all, the fact that I don't buy a random assertion of "if Pawar can get it, just about any politician is fine as well" doesn't imply a general defense of Pawar. The guy has put in the time over 20 plus years leading up to this gig. His competence in his day job is about as relevant as your competence in your day job to your form on this forum.

Third of all, you're being highly presumptuous on other people's knowledge of Indian, and Maharashtrian, politics. Don't think it will be particularly hard to pound you into the ground on those topics too, but this is not the forum for it.

Last of all, if this general ranting is a tactic, it isn't working in this case. If you've something specific to say about Sharad Pawar's length and depth of experience as a cricket administrator - say it. And those comments have to bring out things significant enough to justify handing the ICC presidency to just about any politician. None of this other stuff counts for one bit on this thread.

 

[jeevan]

As If Pawar has left a talent pool of World Class bowlers to replace Kumble and numerous Dravids and Sachin Tendulkars lined up after their retirement.

Somebody get that sarchasm picture for this guy.

 

[jeevan]

T20 Yes, but Not The Tests, None of the players were groomed by his management. Otoh 2007 WC was a disaster because of the team selection made by his team of selectors, who picked spent force like Kumble, Ganguly etc. None of them were good enough to play ODIs.

.

I'm going to call the bluff on this one too. India crashed out of WC2007 due to the loss to BD. Kumble did not play in that match and Ganguly was the top scorer in it on either side.

Not to mention the massive disservice you're doing to the performance of the BD team on that day by trying to pin the whole thing on Sharad Pawar!

 

[shortofalength]

This made me laugh out loud. Keep going, you're good value.

Sorry NZtailender you don't get it. Howard ruled a party that owed their allegiance to him because he was able to manipulate a weak opposition and stay in power. His "skills" revolve around being able to take right wing populist issues (Asian immigration, refugees, Muslim 'crime') and use them to drive wedges between his opponents. Works well in a white Anglo Saxon dominated country like Australia but won't do him any good in a multi racial organisation like the ICC.

 

[NZTailender]

Sorry NZtailender you don't get it. Howard ruled a party that owed their allegiance to him because he was able to manipulate a weak opposition and stay in power. His "skills" revolve around being able to take right wing populist issues (Asian immigration, refugees, Muslim 'crime') and use them to drive wedges between his opponents. Works well in a white Anglo Saxon dominated country like Australia but won't do him any good in a multi racial organisation like the ICC.

Haha, how do I respond to this post? Loving this thread.

 

[Anil]

Not to mention the massive disservice you're doing to the performance of the BD team on that day by trying to pin the whole thing on Sharad Pawar!

jeevan, what competence are you referring to in pawar's case? the guy is nothing better than a common thug, he found his niche in maharashtrian and national politics and later cricket administration which is a highly politicized post basically because politics in india (as in most places) is a haven for scoundrels like him...from all accounts(from what i have read on him and from what aussie posters who i respect have posted ), howard is pretty much another slime-ball maybe with a comparatively thicker veneer of sophistication...

 

[jeevan]

jeevan, what competence are you referring to in pawar's case? the guy is nothing better than a common thug, he found his niche in maharashtrian and national politics and later cricket administration which is a highly politicized post basically because politics in india (as in most places) is a haven for scoundrels like him...from all accounts(from what i have read on him and from what aussie posters who i respect have posted ), howard is pretty much another slime-ball maybe with a comparatively thicker veneer of sophistication...

Dfference is Pawar has put in his 20+ years in administering various sports organizations (starting from regional ones in less popular sports and moving up) and not made a hash of any of them. (See WICB, PCB for examples) , i.e. been an average administrator who has worked his way up like many other administrators. What I resent in this matter of John Howard is some random dude (as far as ICC is concerned) being parachuted in by one of the member associations when there was a good candidate on hand.

I'm not ascribing any particular competencies to Pawar, just a long and relevant CV in this field and an absence of large incompetencies in the performance of those duties. By and large I think of sports administration as a don't-****-it-up job. And I'm asking Sanz to back up his assertion on "if Pawar gets it, any politician should".

Not willing to be drawn into a generic discussion on Indian politics, but my views on Pawar (most not shared on this forum) are quite balanced and will stand up to scrutiny much better than simplistic assertions. See as e.g. http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/2144751-post2.html

 

[Sanz]

First of all, we're not talking of Pawar the politician but of Pawar the sports and cricket administrator. .

There wouldn't be Pawar the "The sports and Cricket Administrator" without Pawar "the Politician".

Pawar has been in sports only because of his politics, otherwise he knows nothing about any sport administration.

 

[Sanz]

Somebody get that sarchasm picture for this guy.

Look who is talking here ?