*Official* Bangladesh in New Zealand

[Black_Warrior]

Bangladesh will rue the fact that they didnt score 50 more runs..the match could have been interesting then.. Once again the horrible batting is to blame.

Originally Posted by Somerset

I know you posted this a while back but some interesting points. I'm no expert when it comes to Bangladeshi cricket but I can't disagree with your first and third recommendations. Maybe a bit harsh on Kayes in your second point, he was run out today primarily due to a poor call from Ashraful (though admittedly not entirely without fault of his own) and made a reasonable start at Napier before being dismissed.

I havent seen Kayes on this tour but saw him play against West Indies last July when Bangladesh won the series...He was part of the winning side, and yet he looked pretty unimpressive.

Originally Posted by thierry henry

jeez Richardson and Doull (mostly Richardson) annoy me.

They're wanking on about Rubel being "impressive" based solely on the fact that he can bowl 140-143kph.

Not wanting to hate on Rubel, but that sort of pace is neither here nor there at international level. I daresay Rubel's record will show you that.

Richardson does this every single time he sees a bowler over 140kph and it's simply based on the fact that he was scared of such bowlers during his playing days (and freely admits as much). It doesn't make for good analysis.

Not aware of Richardson and Doull's history as commentators but I can understand why people consider Rubel impressive. You have to look at the context here..He is the first and only bowler for Bangladesh to go past 140 kph. Thats impressive..

[lockton2skipper]

i saw some of the early action in the uk via a internet stream to check out mckay he seemed to be mid 130s k with a few over 140. a very speedy sort of run up and action. wether he was delibaratley bowling within his self or what i don't know.

[Somerset]

Originally Posted by thierry henry

I so hope Taylor is in this form when Australia come

As the commentators kept mentioning Taylor's form and none could provide an example of the last time they could remember Taylor being out of form, I actually looked into it. Found it would be interesting to note that even though hes striking the ball brilliantly of late, he hasn't actually scored a century at international or domestic level in any format of the game since the test against India at the Basin Reserve in April 2009, i.e. ten months without a three figure score...

[Somerset]

Originally Posted by Halfpast_Yellow

Hasn't he been out for a first ball duck to a similar ball in ODI cricket before?

This might've been what you were referring to?
5th ODI: New Zealand v West Indies at Napier, Jan 13, 2009 | Cricket Scorecard | Cricinfo.com
NT Broom lbw b Powell 0 1 1 0 0 0.00

The only other time Broom's been out first ball in ODIs was after being run out against Australia, though he was also LBW to Afridi second ball in Abu Dhabi just a few months ago.

[cbuts]

Originally Posted by Polo23

Showed his quality quite clearly. Obviously he is not "rubbish" as so many people have labeled him. Give him a bit of time to bat (like he had yesterday) and he'll come up trumps.

I'm still puzzled how almost everyone can write the guy off after 15 or so innings, almost all of which he's had to come in at the death and slog which is not his game, and he's been batting 2 positions lower than what he should for NZ. You bat most players 2 places out of position and they arent going to be as effective as they could.

a golden duck against Bangladesh
How that man got 70 odd the other day, I do not know, but good to see him back to his usual best. Give Williamson a shot
he has rarely came in at the death.... and he has also had a number of chance at number 5. And its not like he is getting out cheaply cos he is trying to smash it etc.... He geniuenly looks inept with a bat in his hand

[SmityNZ]

Originally Posted by cbuts

a golden duck against Bangladesh
How that man got 70 odd the other day, I do not know, but good to see him back to his usual best. Give Williamson a shot
he has rarely came in at the death.... and he has also had a number of chance at number 5. And its not like he is getting out cheaply cos he is trying to smash it etc.... He geniuenly looks inept with a bat in his hand

He's batted 5 once in his ODI career. Sorry to destroy your baseless rant with facts, but it's only fair, right?

Most people would have struggled to keep that ball out first up yesterday.

[Bahnz]

Originally Posted by SmityNZ

He's batted 5 once in his ODI career. Sorry to destroy your baseless rant with facts, but it's only fair, right?

Most people would have struggled to keep that ball out first up yesterday.

If by "most people", you mean the average man in the crowd, then sure. But any decent top order batsman should be able to keep a medium fast yorker out, regardless of how new at the crease they are.

[Polo23]

I like it how none of the Broom haters give Broom any credit when he scores 70 and pulls us out of the ****, but are only too happy to put the boot in when he fails.

Just for the record, Brendon McCullum averaged 16 after 18 innings, Styris averaged 12.8 (probably a little unfair because he was picked more as a bowler back then...but he could still bat and was down the order, similar to Broom), Fleming averaged 25.

Yep, Broom has no chance of ever succeeding based on his first 18 ODI innings, no chance at all.

[Bahnz]

Originally Posted by Polo23

I like it how none of the Broom haters give Broom any credit when he scores 70 and pulls us out of the ****, but are only too happy to put the boot in when he fails.

Just for the record, Brendon McCullum averaged 16 after 18 innings, Styris averaged 12.8 (probably a little unfair because he was picked more as a bowler back then...but he could still bat and was down the order, similar to Broom), Fleming averaged 25.

Yep, Broom has no chance of ever succeeding based on his first 18 ODI innings, no chance at all.

If you're able to proclaim Broom as the second coming of Crowe after knocking about a 70 odd (after being dropped on 20) against a less than FC quality bowling attack at Napier, then why shouldn't his detractors get to stick the boot in when he fails against the same team?

McCullum was 20 when he started playing international cricket and was plainly not ready. Styris was a bit like Ian Butler or Gavin Larsen in terms of his batting and played at 9ish, nothing like Broom, a specialist bat at 6 or 7. Fleming's style of play was poorly suited to ODI cricket when he started his career (again at a very young age). None of your comparisons hold any value.

Broom is 26 and should be at the peak of his batting powers, and yet after more than a year in the side has failed to really impress at any stage. Just because he can bully about domestic bowling lineups and he got some praise in the emerging players tournament (where Mark Gillespie was proclaimed as the next Shane Bond a few years earlier) doesn't mean he deserves a place in the ODI side, especially when there are other players with stronger claims to his place.

Again, none of this is to say that he doesn't deserve a spot in the test middle order.

[Howsie]

Originally Posted by cbuts

a golden duck against Bangladesh
How that man got 70 odd the other day, I do not know, but good to see him back to his usual best. Give Williamson a shot
he has rarely came in at the death.... and he has also had a number of chance at number 5. And its not like he is getting out cheaply cos he is trying to smash it etc.... He geniuenly looks inept with a bat in his hand

Yeah, let's pick Williamson and bat him at six or seven, that will work Broom's been totally screwed over by the selectors during his international career, hopefully nobody else get's this type of treatment in the coming years.

[Bahnz]

Originally Posted by Howsie

Yeah, let's pick Williamson and bat him at six or seven, that will work Broom's been totally screwed over by the selectors during his international career, hopefully nobody else get's this type of treatment in the coming years.

Don't buy that either. Broom has spent most of his ODI career batting at number 6 or above, which is only one position lower than where he used to bat for Otago (although this season I think he's moved up to 4 for the Volts). He's also had plenty of opportunities to come in with plenty of time to build an innings. Prior to this series, in innings in which he came out to bat before the 30th over (8 out of 16), Broom averaged 19.57 with a top score of 37, figures not noticeably superior to his overall record. Indeed, given how poor his performances have been, you could say that the selectors have been unusually generous to him.

[Howsie]

So eight innings is enough for people that have seen very little of him in domestic cricket to come to the conclusion that he's rubbish, hmmm okay.

The thing I really don't understand at the moment is that he's been the best batsmen in domestic cricket this season and yet our selectors/coach/captain decide to bat him behind someone like James Franklin, that really doesn't make sense to me. How anyone can say he's really had a "fair chance" is beyond me.

[Polo23]

Originally Posted by Bahnz

If you're able to proclaim Broom as the second coming of Crowe after knocking about a 70 odd (after being dropped on 20) against a less than FC quality bowling attack at Napier, then why shouldn't his detractors get to stick the boot in when he fails against the same team?

McCullum was 20 when he started playing international cricket and was plainly not ready. Styris was a bit like Ian Butler or Gavin Larsen in terms of his batting and played at 9ish, nothing like Broom, a specialist bat at 6 or 7. Fleming's style of play was poorly suited to ODI cricket when he started his career (again at a very young age). None of your comparisons hold any value.

Broom is 26 and should be at the peak of his batting powers, and yet after more than a year in the side has failed to really impress at any stage. Just because he can bully about domestic bowling lineups and he got some praise in the emerging players tournament (where Mark Gillespie was proclaimed as the next Shane Bond a few years earlier) doesn't mean he deserves a place in the ODI side, especially when there are other players with stronger claims to his place.

Again, none of this is to say that he doesn't deserve a spot in the test middle order.

Me calling someone quality is proclaiming them as the second coming of Crowe?

You say Fleming's style of play was poorly suited to ODI cricket back then, well Broom's style of play is poorly suited to batting number 6/7 in ODI cricket now. He should be above Franklin (can anyone explain to me why he is not?). My comparisons were to show players can start poorly and turn it around, why should it be any different for Broom? Very few New Zealand players hit the ground running when they come into international cricket, it's a pretty well known fact that our players generally take a season or two to adjust.

[Bahnz]

Originally Posted by Howsie

So eight innings is enough for people that have seen very little of him in domestic cricket to come to the conclusion that he's rubbish, hmmm okay.

The thing I really don't understand at the moment is that he's been the best batsmen in domestic cricket this season and yet our selectors/coach/captain decide to bat him behind someone like James Franklin, that really doesn't make sense to me. How anyone can say he's really had a "fair chance" is beyond me.

Seen very little of him? He's been on our TV screens for a whole year against international attacks, looking rubbish.

And yeah, perhaps he should be batting above Franklin (who, it must be remembered, has also been in superb domestic form for the past year), but this series was always about experimenting a bit anyway. Broom has had a lot more chances to cement a spot than most players would get, and so far he hasn't taken any of them.

[Polo23]

Originally Posted by Bahnz

Don't buy that either. Broom has spent most of his ODI career batting at number 6 or above, which is only one position lower than where he used to bat for Otago (although this season I think he's moved up to 4 for the Volts). He's also had plenty of opportunities to come in with plenty of time to build an innings. Prior to this series, in innings in which he came out to bat before the 30th over (8 out of 16), Broom averaged 19.57 with a top score of 37, figures not noticeably superior to his overall record. Indeed, given how poor his performances have been, you could say that the selectors have been unusually generous to him.

Broom has batted above number 6 twice in those 18 innings, 10 times at six (at least 1 position too low) and 6 times at 7. So only 2 innings has he batted in a position that suits him.

Also, he's spent most of his list A career batting at number 4 for the Volts, in the past couple of seasons he's been shifted down to 5 a bit, but the majority has been at 4.