*Official* South Africa in India

[Goughy]

Originally Posted by silentstriker

Yes, most defnitely. That's always been an issue. Can you believe that before Kapil Dev, Gavaskar had never seen any Indian fast bowler bounce an opposition player? The whole team was shocked when he came along, and he was hardly express!

Ishant was never 90mph, but he was bowling 140kph initially and now he is 5-10kph slower. While more speed is nice, I think India seem to be missing a lot more than that with our pace bowling most of the time. India do need swinging conditions to be really effective, and the problem is that could also play into the other team's hands.

Without a doubt India's seam bowling stocks have never been higher than what they are right now. However, people never seem satisfied and are always looking for the next big thing. Just look at the excitement over Ishant and Sreesanth before and so on.

If India were happy with their stock and unfair expectations were not applied then a tidy unit could be built.

[GingerFurball]

Originally Posted by Goughy

Without a doubt India's seam bowling stocks have never been higher than what they are right now. However, people never seem satisfied and are always looking for the next big thing. Just look at the excitement over Ishant and Sreesanth before and so on.

If India were happy with their stock and unfair expectations were not applied then a tidy unit could be built.

I think part of it comes from their rivalry with Pakistan. Fully fit, Pakistan can pick from Shoaib, Asif, Aamer and Gul, which is arguably as good as any pace attack around, plus have great fast bowlers like Imran, Waqar, Wasim, Sarfraz and the bowler from the 60s who's name eludes me just now.

India's seam stocks are certainly decent, but compare unfavourably with Pakistan's, both now and through the years.

[JBH001]

Originally Posted by Pratters

Well said.

That being said, Sachin would do well to improve his record v South Africa in the remaining tests he plays v them this year.

Sachin's poor record against SA at home is only of worth to the statistical contortionists forever twisting numbers through arbitrary hoops. In reality it means little other than that he had a couple of poor series against them. I swear that sometimes I think that some CW posters look at players (for example Murali, Ponting, Sachin) in certain series' and almost wish they do badly so they can go on making statistical points in long boring post-athons. If it werent funny it would be more than a little sad.

[Black_Warrior]

Originally Posted by L Trumper

There is a reason why people don't belive ind is not the best side even in the current period. Every one is saying they are undefeated since SRI08 tour but they hardly have a tough series from then on. Played against aussie team in disarray and transition and won which is a good result. That is the only series can be considered tough. Through out the 2009 they beat NZ away which ENG,SA and AUS do for fun everytime. And they won against SRI in home which AUS and SA do for fun. Before that they had a series victories against ENG in 2007 which mostly achieved cause of the rain in lords test. Because their away record is nothing to write off, most of the aussies and saffers are hard to agree about IND being the best side, which is understandable.

Agree with you on most points except the bit about 'Played against aussie team in disarray and transition and won'. That is not true. Australia were a pretty strong team, and they played good cricket..and were in a realistic position to win a test match and make it 1-1 had it not been for Ponting's defensive and petty approach. Anyway..point is, the same Australian team in disarray managed to beat South Africa in South Africa. So by no means can you dismiss the win over Australia in 08.

To be honest, it is perhaps a bit unfair from India's perspective..They are up against the number 2 ranked team in the world in what is supposed to be the contest which will decide the best test team in the world and they are without two of their best batsman. That is not an ideal situation. And while I would back India to beat other sides from number 5 onwards without Dravid and Laxman, against the second best team, its hard.
Anyway, the second test match will be a turner and Harbhajan and Mishra will run through the side with Sehwag getting a 200.

Originally Posted by Goughy

It is a little scary that all SA's 4 seamers were quicker than the 2 chosen by India. Even Kallis as SA's 4th seamer broke 90 mph and was faster on average than Indias frontline seamers despite already cracking a big ton.

Wow really? I havent seen the match but do you know at what pace Ishant was bowling at? Its really disappointing that people like Ishant, Irfan Pathan, Zaheer Khan come in hitting 90 mph then in a year become medium pacers.

[Goughy]

Originally Posted by Black_Warrior

Wow really? I havent seen the match but do you know at what pace Ishant was bowling at? Its really disappointing that people like Ishant, Irfan Pathan, Zaheer Khan come in hitting 90 mph then in a year become medium pacers.

Ishant had an average of 82.8 and a top of 86.9. Zaheer slower than that.

Compared to Morkel who had an av of 88.3 and a top speed of 94.4

Can check them all by using cricinfo's new Hawkeye feature

India 66/2 (23.0 ov, M Vijay 27*, SR Tendulkar 15*, JH Kallis 0/5) - Stumps | Live Scorecard | Cricinfo.com

[Anil]

so dhoni prepares for the 1st blemish in his captaincy record...

[silentstriker]

Yup, not a bad thing to lose to though. I can't wait for another Steyn spell. India ar elosing either way, so I'm hoping for an awesome spell again. 5 overs, 3 runs, 5 wickets again. Wow.

[funnygirl]

Originally Posted by silentstriker

Yup, not a bad thing to lose to though. I can't wait for another Steyn spell. India ar elosing either way, so I'm hoping for an awesome spell again. 5 overs, 3 runs, 5 wickets again. Wow.

No man i don't want that again at India's expense

[silentstriker]

Well, India lost already. They're not getting out of it. So instead of losing 8 wickets to mediocre bowling over a day and a half, I'd rather see a 90mph spell reverse swinging the crap out of all the batsmen. Would give me a high that I rarely get post-McGrath .

[Uppercut]

Originally Posted by Goughy

It is a little scary that all SA's 4 seamers were quicker than the 2 chosen by India. Even Kallis as SA's 4th seamer broke 90 mph and was faster on average than Indias frontline seamers despite already cracking a big ton.

Yeah that's true, although to be fair to Zaheer, his first couple of spells were very good.

Could only laugh at the bit about Kallis. Scores 170 over two days then bowls 90mph on the third. No player that good should realistically exist.

[Anil]

this will end on the 4th day...

[chicane]

I think it's a given that Steyn will bowl another furious spell or two today. Just need Sachin and the others to make it a contest and I'll be frothing.

[aussie]

Originally Posted by Uppercut

Yeah that's true, although to be fair to Zaheer, his first couple of spells were very good.

Could only laugh at the bit about Kallis. Scores 170 over two days then bowls 90mph on the third. No player that good should realistically exist.

Kallis bowling 90 mph was questionable at the end of 3rd day. He definately didn't look that quick.

[Uppercut]

I absolutely love Steyn's celebrations. He just goes nuts. It's exactly how I'd react if I ever took a test wicket.

[L Trumper]

Originally Posted by Black_Warrior

Agree with you on most points except the bit about 'Played against aussie team in disarray and transition and won'. That is not true. Australia were a pretty strong team, and they played good cricket..and were in a realistic position to win a test match and make it 1-1 had it not been for Ponting's defensive and petty approach. Anyway..point is, the same Australian team in disarray managed to beat South Africa in South Africa. So by no means can you dismiss the win over Australia in 08.

To be honest, it is perhaps a bit unfair from India's perspective..They are up against the number 2 ranked team in the world in what is supposed to be the contest which will decide the best test team in the world and they are without two of their best batsman. That is not an ideal situation. And while I would back India to beat other sides from number 5 onwards without Dravid and Laxman, against the second best team, its hard.
Anyway, the second test match will be a turner and Harbhajan and Mishra will run through the side with Sehwag getting a 200.

I did mention that it is a good series win. As far as AUS victory against SA is considered, AUS went there to prove a point while SA were more or less sleeping. But from outsiders perspective IND did hardly anything apart from beating AUS in home, while SA lost their ranking mostly because they didn't play enough. I am not saying SA or AUS number one either but its more or less a tie. IND are better in home compared to those two but still has something to prove on away games to be called as number 1.