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Killer Records Against 1 Team

Fusion

Fusion

Global Moderator
SJS said:
I have always been amazed by the difference in Warne's performance against India and Pakistan. He has played almost the same number of matches against the two 14 India and 15 Pakistan but thats where the similarity ends.

He got just 3 wickets per Test (43) against India and twice as many, 6 per Test (90) against Pakistan.

He managed just 1 five wicket haul against India and never ever appraoched a 10 fer but got 6 5 fers and 2 ten fer against our western neighbours.

His wickets against India cost him a whopping 47.2 each. Pakistan sold them cheap at 20.2 !

The strike rate is so good against Pakistan at 45.0 and so terrible at 91.3 against India.

India was far and away the least favourite side of Warne to want to bowl to and no one, not even lowly Zimbabwe and Bangladesh gave him as good figures all round as India's cousins next door :happy:

Code: 
[B]Against      	Pakistan	India[/B]
Tests        	15              14
Wickets     	90             	43
Wkts/Test 	6       	3
5 fers        	6       	1
10 fers      	2       	0
Average    	21.2          	47.2
St Rate     	45             	91.3
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Warne and McGrath murdered us through the years. The scars they have left are still visible even after they've left. Pakistan today are still playing Australia scared and timid.
 
SJS

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
MrIncredible said:
At the other end of the spectrum, which batsmen average over 50 vs the most teams and which bowler averages under 25 vs the most teams??
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Tendulkar against seven (so far) out of the nine he has played. Bradman, of course, averages between 70 and 200+ against the four he played :)
 
bagapath

bagapath

International Captain
MrIncredible said:
Kinda knew about Marshall but i didnt realise Donald was that good. I suspect the 'missing' team would be Oz??
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yeah it was. donald averaged 31 against them. and he averaged under 30 in all countries (28 in AUS) except in pakistan where he played only 2 tests and averaged 32.

marshall averaged 32 in nz in three tests, otherwise he took his wickets under 30 everywhere else.
 
aussie

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
bagapath said:
yeah it was. donald averaged 31 against them. and he averaged under 30 in all countries (28 in AUS) except in pakistan where he played only 2 tests and averaged 32.

marshall averaged 32 in nz in three tests, otherwise he took his wickets under 30 everywhere else.
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When judging Donald's record vs AUS one needs to take out his performances in the 4 test he played vs AUS in 2001/02 when he was wayy passed his peak & i reckon his average would then go under 30 vs my team.
 
Sir Alex

Sir Alex

Banned
aussie said:
When judging Donald's record vs AUS one needs to take out his performances in the 4 test he played vs AUS in 2001/02 when he was wayy passed his peak & i reckon his average would then go under 30 vs my team.
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He shouldn't have bothered to play then.
 
bagapath

bagapath

International Captain
aussie said:
When judging Donald's record vs AUS one needs to take out his performances in the 4 test he played vs AUS in 2001/02 when he was wayy passed his peak & i reckon his average would then go under 30 vs my team.
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would eventually lead to cherry picking. better to look at the overall careers while judging players.
 
aussie

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
bagapath said:
would eventually lead to cherry picking. better to look at the overall careers while judging players.
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No cherry picking. You are looking at his overall career, in which his peak years for a solid 8 years from WI 92 to ENG 2000 (where he was very solid vs AUS in series between 93/94 - 97/98) & should meet the criteria of averaging under 30. You are leaving out his last 2 years in which he was passed his ultimate peak where coincidentally he ran into the AUS.

I dont know if you saw Donald bowl in that series but the man had slowed down considerably & wasn't the same white lightning who was bowling 90+ mph's like in the 90s. In his last test vs AUS @ Jo'Burg he was sadly stretched off due to injury as well. You really can't consider those 4 tests..
 
Sir Alex

Sir Alex

Banned
aussie said:
No cherry picking. You are looking at his overall career, in which his peak years for a solid 8 years from WI 92 to ENG 2000 (where he was very solid vs AUS in series between 93/94 - 97/98) & should meet the criteria of averaging under 30. You are leaving out his last 2 years in which he was passed his ultimate peak where coincidentally he ran into the AUS.

I dont know if you saw Donald bowl in that series but the man had slowed down considerably & wasn't the same white lightning who was bowling 90+ mph's like in the 90s. In his last test vs AUS @ Jo'Burg he was sadly stretched off due to injury as well. You really can't consider those 4 tests..
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Micheal Vaughan then deserves to be in that list because during his peak around 2002 he was averaging about 60. So should Laxman who averages over 50 since his epic 281 in 2001.
 
bagapath

bagapath

International Captain
aussie said:
No cherry picking. You are looking at his overall career, in which his peak years for a solid 8 years from WI 92 to ENG 2000 (where he was very solid vs AUS in series between 93/94 - 97/98) & should meet the criteria of averaging under 30. You are leaving out his last 2 years in which he was passed his ultimate peak where coincidentally he ran into the AUS.

I dont know if you saw Donald bowl in that series but the man had slowed down considerably & wasn't the same white lightning who was bowling 90+ mph's like in the 90s. In his last test vs AUS @ Jo'Burg he was sadly stretched off due to injury as well. You really can't consider those 4 tests..
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greenidge averaged 50+ after 75 odd tests but finished with a 44 average.... botham averaged 5 wickets per test under 23. finished with less than 4 per match at 28. this has happened to so many players... that is the nature of the game... and that is why you have to take the overall career into consideration...

sachin averaged above 40 in SA until the last series he played there. now it is 39. he will have to live with it.
 
aussie

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
bagapath said:
greenidge averaged 50+ after 75 odd tests but finished with a 44 average....
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Does that mean he declined?. I dont think so since i know Greendige scored a superb double century in his last test series @ age 40.


bagapath said:
botham averaged 5 wickets per test under 23. finished with less than 4 per match at 28.
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Clearly this is because of injury & other factors. When judging Botham as a great all-rounder you can only look at his performances from 77-84. Unless you want to compare him to other all-rounders his late career decline isn't relevant to judging his greatness.

bagapath said:
this has happened to so many players... that is the nature of the game... and that is why you have to take the overall career into consideration...
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It depends on the circumstances of the players career. Some players like Marshall & Greg Chappell for example its fairly easy to judge them via overall career performances, since they started off with a bang & ended their careers as some of the best in the buisness. They never declined.

Then you have blokes like:

- Viv Richards who didn't score a hundred in the last 3 years of this test career. He clearly should only be judged on performances from 1976-1988.

- Waqar younis after his 94/95 injury. Like Botham one can & should only judge his greatness based on that short peak. After injury his later he wasn't the same again...

- Gary Sobers as all 'all-rounder" after 1970 (The ENG vs ROW series). Since after that series his bowling declined considerably, while his batting remainded very good. So when judging him as an "all-rounder" his output as a bowler from 70 - 73/74 shouldn't be considered.

bagapath said:
sachin averaged above 40 in SA until the last series he played there. now it is 39. he will have to live with it.
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I dont see why. You seem to forget that in his last series in SA 07 Tendy was still in his "tennis-elbow injury phase" which affted him alot in tests between ENG 2002 to PAK 07/08. At his best he avergaed 40 in SA, such factors you cant turn a blind eye to.

Note: Well just realising when talking about Tendys record in SA it usually runs againts Donald/Pollock or any really top quality SA attacks. Tendy at his best vs top quality SA attacks in SA was only in 92/93 & 96/97 (the 2001 attack was not a top SA attack) & he averaged 36 over those 2 series.

The 2006/07 shouldn't be considered since as i said Tendy wasn't at his best & he was up againts a quality SA attack.
 
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