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Thread: Do New Zealand have the worst luck with fast bowlers?

  1. #1
    World Traveller Craig's Avatar
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    Do New Zealand have the worst luck with fast bowlers?

    It seems that way. Anytime we get anybody good or decent, or even very promising they get struck down by an injury, and then are riddled with injuries for the rest of the career. As a result New Zealand never got the best out of Dion Nash, Shayne O'Connor, Chris Cairns (as a bowler), and Geoff Allott because they were struck down with injury so much. Shane Bond can barely stay on the field for more then five minutes, especially in Tests, and as some have said, one of cricket's 'what-ifs', and something we will never know. And then we have a guy like Iain O'Brien who has now quit all NZ cricket to start a new life in England with his wife. Although he was injury prone, he did get the best out of himself and his stats don't tell the true story. Chris Martin is 35 and can't go on forever.

    I can't think of too many countries where they have had such a problem with their fast bowlers and so many injuries. Why does this happen, and what is being done to stop it from happening?
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    International Regular bryce's Avatar
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    Hard to say I guess South Africa lost a couple of really promising ones too in Brett Schultz and Mfuneko Ngam
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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    I know little about Schultz but there's far from strong evidence of how good Ngam might've been. There's pretty strong evidence of the potential of the likes of Doull, Allott, Nash, Cairns, O'Connor, Bond, Franklin etc. which they were never really allowed to fulfill due to lack of fitness.

    Certainly if anyone has had worse luck with injury to their seamers in the last ~10-15 years than New Zealand I'll be astonished. Most sides have had some misfortune (South Africa possibly with Schultz and certainly with Terbrugge and Hayward; England with Fraser, Gough, Headley, Simon Jones etc.; West Indies with King and potentially Taylor; Pakistan with Shoaib and several others; there's really only Australia who generally produce more than a modicum of seam-bowling talent who've not suffered all that much in recent times, and it's no coincidence that said luck with lack of injury has coincided with good results) but New Zealand seems certainly to me to have been worst-hit.
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    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Better than not having them at all. You had Hadlee, stop complaining.
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  5. #5
    New Zealand just have so little depth that when someone goes down it's highlighted. They also don't play as much high profile cricket to take over the headlines. So someone like Bond remains big news for quite a while. It is the perception taken from the media coverage that makes it sound disproportionate.

    England for instance had guys like Tudor just fade away without much interest. If he had been a Black Cap that would have been a big thing. There are also players who may have not been picked partly because they were injury prone - guys like Mark Davies - in NZ anyone with the slighest bit of talent gets picked regardless of anything else.
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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scaly piscine View Post
    England for instance had guys like Tudor just fade away without much interest.
    Yeah, nah, there's been no interest at all in Tudor and his constant injury woes.

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    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Smaller pool to draw players from means that an injury cruelling the career of a world class prospect stands out more and hurts more.
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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    I really don't agree. A top-class prospect (not sure O'Connor quite was one of them but all the rest were for mine) whose chances are ruined by injury is always going to be big news. Of course it's going to be a bigger loss for a team with smaller talent pool than one with bigger, but the idea that the loss of players will be highlighted more in New Zealand than for example South Africa or England is arrant nonsense, nothing less.

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    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    So you agree with my point and then call it arrant nonsense without explaining why, or why you're contradicting yourself in the space of one post. Started drinking early?

    Can't see how you can argue that the loss of a test standard quick is NOT going to hurt more if you don't have similar standard replacements.

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post
    So you agree with my point and then call it arrant nonsense without explaining why, or why you're contradicting yourself in the space of one post. Started drinking early?
    Nope - not planning on drinking anything in the next few days. It was more Beevs' "point" than yours that I was calling arrant nonsense - I agree with part of what you were saying (that it's going to hurt more) and don't agree with the other (that it stands-out more). That's not contradicting oneself.

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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Doull top class potential? Come on. Rich de Groen FTW.

    As for SA, let's not forget Tertius Bosch too. As quick as Donald but cut-down. I saw Ngam bowl and, while he was a bit erratic, the guy bowled like the wind. Gave everyone he faced the hurry-up.
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    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    It seems that way. Anytime we get anybody good or decent, or even very promising they get struck down by an injury, and then are riddled with injuries for the rest of the career. As a result New Zealand never got the best out of Dion Nash, Shayne O'Connor, Chris Cairns (as a bowler), and Geoff Allott because they were struck down with injury so much. Shane Bond can barely stay on the field for more then five minutes, especially in Tests, and as some have said, one of cricket's 'what-ifs', and something we will never know. And then we have a guy like Iain O'Brien who has now quit all NZ cricket to start a new life in England with his wife. Although he was injury prone, he did get the best out of himself and his stats don't tell the true story. Chris Martin is 35 and can't go on forever.

    I can't think of too many countries where they have had such a problem with their fast bowlers and so many injuries. Why does this happen, and what is being done to stop it from happening?
    Dont forget Simon Doull & Oram as an all-rounder. The sad thing about it is that most of them have come in the last decade. At one point around 199-2004 (NZ two tours to ENG 99-04), if all those bowlers where fit at some point they could have played this potential XI & it could have been the best in NZ history.

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    World Traveller Craig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    Better than not having them at all. You had Hadlee, stop complaining.
    India had Kail Dev. Not like every Indian bowler has been a pie chucker.

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    I think our winter and training facilities plays a big part. Having to train and play on concrete pitches throughout the winter/early season is incredibly tough on a fast bowler. I don't know too many places in the world where top class fast bowlers are training on concrete throughout winter.

    Australia is probably the perfect place to breed a cricketer, the weather is generally good enough to play cricket outdoors all year round.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polo23 View Post
    I think our winter and training facilities plays a big part. Having to train and play on concrete pitches throughout the winter/early season is incredibly tough on a fast bowler. I don't know too many places in the world where top class fast bowlers are training on concrete throughout winter.
    Didn't know this. Has to be a huge factor when you consider the injuries too.

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