Can any one tell me what the hell Ponting is talking about ?

SJS · 14-12-2009, 10:06 AM

Drawn Tests in Indian sub-continent a worry: Ponting

Too many Test matches played in the Indian sub-continent do not produce results, which is a worry for the health of cricket's longer version, according to Australian captain Ricky Ponting.

Asked about his thoughts on the 'death of Test cricket', Ponting said, "I can understand where a lot of negative stuff might start because there's not a lot of results being achieved on the sub-continent these days.

"That is a worry for the game. But all we can do is just keep on playing good, aggressive, positive cricket and try to get results in most games we play," Ponting said.

Can any one tell me what Ponting is talking about here?

Mr Mxyzptlk · 14-12-2009, 10:10 AM

Well he's talking about a lack of results on subcontinental pitches...

...because a subcontinental team stole his number one spot.

Richard · 14-12-2009, 10:21 AM

UIMM, the subcontinent like everywhere else sees more results these days than ever before. For the same reasons - the increased ability to make-up lost time, statutory minimum overs, etc.

That there are fewer results in the subcontinent than elsewhere isn't inconceivable, but I'd want to look at the result stats before saying I was sure there were.

Either way the suggestion that there are fewer results these days in the subcontinent than in the past is a rather odd one.

SJS · 14-12-2009, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Mxyzptlk

Well he's talking about a lack of results on subcontinental pitches...

...because a subcontinental team stole his number one spot.

How does he want to compare result oriented pitches?

Australia and India have played 16 matches over the last four series. - eight in each country. Here are the results

Code:

Played In	AUS	IND
Matches 	8	8
Results     	5	5
Batting  Avg	39.6	31.4
100 + Inns 	23	14
50+ Inns.   	66	59

In Pakistan it is

Code:

Played In	AUS	PAK
Matches 	3	3
Results     	3	3
Batting  Avg	31.7	22.7
100 + Inns 	7	4
50+ Inns. 	20	16

In Sri Lanka . . .

Code:

Played In	AUS	SRL
Matches 	4	3
Results     	3	3
Batting Avg	33.73	30.5
100 + Innings	11	10
50+ Innings	31	20

That should pretty much cover the matches he and his country have been involved with against sub continental teams. It doesn't look as if sub continental wickets helped the batsmen more than they did in Australia did they?

Australian wickets are surely more batsman friendly.

Mr Mxyzptlk · 14-12-2009, 10:35 AM

So am I the only one who doesn't find it odd at all that Ricky Ponting would criticise cricket on the subcontinent now?

SJS · 14-12-2009, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Mxyzptlk

So am I the only one who doesn't find it odd at all that Ricky Ponting would criticise cricket on the subcontinent now?

He can criticise as much as he wants but shouldn't some one ask him on what basis he makes that statement? Yes the world needs to level the playing field a bit between batsmen and bowlers but that problem not specific just to the sub continent.

Mr Mxyzptlk · 14-12-2009, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJS

He can criticise as much as he wants but shouldn't some one ask him on what basis he makes that statement?

A lot of what Ponting says isn't on the basis of much. He doesn't just look like Dubya...

Uppercut · 14-12-2009, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJS

How does he want to compare result oriented pitches?

Australia and India have played 16 matches over the last four series. - eight in each country. Here are the results

Code:

Played In	AUS	IND
Matches 	8	8
Results     	5	5
Batting  Avg	39.6	31.4
100 + Inns 	23	14
50+ Inns.   	66	59

In Pakistan it is

Code:

Played In	AUS	PAK
Matches 	3	3
Results     	3	3
Batting  Avg	31.7	22.7
100 + Inns 	7	4
50+ Inns. 	20	16

In Sri Lanka . . .

Code:

Played In	AUS	SRL
Matches 	4	3
Results     	3	3
Batting Avg	33.73	30.5
100 + Innings	11	10
50+ Innings	31	20

That should pretty much cover the matches he and his country have been involved with against sub continental teams. It doesn't look as if sub continental wickets helped the batsmen more than they did in Australia did they?

Australian wickets are surely more batsman friendly.

I think the batting averages are a bit besides the point. Whether an exciting match is 200 plays 200 or 400 plays 400 doesn't matter so much from a "is it killing test cricket?" perspective, and matches in Australia tend to move along very quickly because the pitches have so much pace and bounce (despite being ultimately flat).

Not that I agree with him, but showing the respective batting averages for each countries is disproving a different argument from the one Ponting is making.

Manee · 14-12-2009, 10:55 AM

I hate how Ponting wishes to hide behind a made up facet such as an increase in, or a comparitively large quantity of drawn Test matches in the subcontinent. It is quite simple, Indian fans are turning away from Test cricket and have lower attendences than in England, Australia, South Africa and for good reason - the pitches are slow, the weather hot and draining and conditions are not conducive to exciting cricket. Perhaps I am misinterpreting Ponting, but I believe that what he says it a veil behind his true criticism that cricket in the subcontinent is boring to watch and is of low popularity - a valid point.

Mr Mxyzptlk · 14-12-2009, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uppercut

Not that I agree with him, but showing the respective batting averages for each countries is disproving a different argument from the one Ponting is making.

You've completely ignored the number of statistic with the number of results then. Because that directly addresses Ponting.

Ikki · 14-12-2009, 11:07 AM

Well, Ponting might argue that because his side were involved many of those matches saw results

Aside from all this, I'd actually like to see a stat of all tests played in this decade in each country and how many in each caused a result. Take away Bangladesh and Zimbabwe of course.

GingerFurball · 14-12-2009, 11:08 AM

A few questions.

If subcontinental pitches are flatter and easier for batting on, then why do so many non-subcontinental batsmen struggle in the subcontinent?

If subcontinental pitches are easier to bat on then why do Laxman, Dravid and Tendulkar average more outside the subcontinent that they do inside the subcontinent for the decade?

The reason you'll occasionally get games like the recent first Test between India and Sri Lanka is because sub continental batsmen find the conditions easier. They're used to them. For exactly the same reason that every Australian batsman (with the exception of Gilchrist) who has scored over 1,000 Test runs in Australia for the decade averages over 50 (in some cases, well over 50). In fact, the record of the best Australian batsmen at home is far superior to their Indian counterparts.

Australia is just as bad as, if not worse than the subcontinent when it comes to flat, batsman friendly tracks. The only reason we've not seen more draws in Australia is largely down to the fact that Australia for the vast majority of the decade have had an excellent bowling attack.

silentstriker · 14-12-2009, 11:09 AM

Well if a few more batsmen played like he does in India, we'd have more results. Ah, there it is at last: an explanation of Pontings record in India: selflessly trying to achieve results

GingerFurball · 14-12-2009, 11:10 AM

Top Australian Run Scorers in Australia this decade:

RT Ponting - 5183 @ 67.31
ML Hayden - 5033 @ 59.21
JL Langer - 3479 @ 51.82
AC Gilchrist - 2496 @ 43.78
MEK Hussey - 1945 @ 64.83
MJ Clarke - 1861 @ 58.15
DR Martyn - 1773 @ 52.14
SR Waugh - 1592 @ 53.06

Top Indian Run Scorers in India this decade:

R Dravid - 3683 @ 53.37
SR Tendulkar - 3290 @ 52.22
V Sehwag - 3202 @ 56.17
VVS Laxman - 2703 @ 51.98
SC Ganguly - 2068 @ 39.76
G Gambhir - 1480 @ 49.33
MS Dhoni - 1116 @ 44.64

Only 2 of those Australian batsmen average over 50 outside of Australia for the decade - Gilchrist and Waugh. Laxman, Dravid and Tendulkar all average more outside the subcontinent for the decade than they do at home, and Ghambir averaged 89 on his 1 tour outside the subcontinent so far.

So how do these Australian batsmen get on when they are faced with subcontinental "batting paradises"? (average in India alone in brackets - Clarke and Hussey have only played in India)

RT Ponting - 652 @ 29.63 (21.85)
ML Hayden - 1348 @ 48.14 (51.35)
JL Langer - 727 @ 34.61 (29.92)
AC Gilchrist - 614 @ 34.11 (28.50)
MEK Hussey - 394 @ 56.28
MJ Clarke - 651 @ 46.50
DR Martyn - 864 @ 54.00 (55.50)
SR Waugh - 274 @ 39.14 (48.60)

Now how do the same group of Indian batsmen fare when they leave their comfort zones and travel to the "fairer" pitches of Australia?

R Dravid - 885 @ 63.21
SR Tendulkar - 925 @ 66.07
V Sehwag - 750 @ 62.50
VVS Laxman - 1034 @ 64.62
SC Ganguly - 545 @ 34.06
G Gambhir - No Tests in Australia
MS Dhoni - 141 @ 17.62 (1 series)

Uppercut · 14-12-2009, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Mxyzptlk

You've completely ignored the number of statistic with the number of results then. Because that directly addresses Ponting.

I haven't ignored them, I just haven't directly addressed them.

14-12-2009, 10:06 AM	#1 (permalink)
SJS Hall of Fame Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Mumbai India Posts: 19,170	Can any one tell me what the hell Ponting is talking about ? Drawn Tests in Indian sub-continent a worry: Ponting Too many Test matches played in the Indian sub-continent do not produce results, which is a worry for the health of cricket's longer version, according to Australian captain Ricky Ponting. Asked about his thoughts on the 'death of Test cricket', Ponting said, "I can understand where a lot of negative stuff might start because there's not a lot of results being achieved on the sub-continent these days. "That is a worry for the game. But all we can do is just keep on playing good, aggressive, positive cricket and try to get results in most games we play," Ponting said. Can any one tell me what Ponting is talking about here?

14-12-2009, 10:10 AM	#2 (permalink)
Mr Mxyzptlk Request Your Custom Title Now! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Trinidad and Tobago (Trinidad) Posts: 36,795	Well he's talking about a lack of results on subcontinental pitches... ...because a subcontinental team stole his number one spot. __________________ Sreesanth said, "Next ball he was beaten and I said, 'is this the King Charles Lara? Who is this impostor, moving around nervously? I should have kept my mouth shut for the next ball - mind you, it was a length ball - Lara just pulled it over the church beyond the boundary! He is a true legend." The Blog The Portfolio The...er...Twitter

14-12-2009, 11:07 AM	#11 (permalink)
Ikki International Coach Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Death Queen Island Posts: 12,032	Well, Ponting might argue that because his side were involved many of those matches saw results Aside from all this, I'd actually like to see a stat of all tests played in this decade in each country and how many in each caused a result. Take away Bangladesh and Zimbabwe of course. __________________ I think there'll sooner be another Bradman than another Warne. - Gidgeon Haigh [Warne is] the greatest bowler ever produced in this entire world - Muttiah Muralidaran [Warne is] the greatest bowler of all time - Glenn McGrath In my opinion Shane Warne is the greatest cricketer who's ever lived - Ian Botham Warne is the greatest cricketer to pick up a ball ever. And is the greatest bowler I have ever laid eyes on. - Brian Lara

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14-12-2009, 10:35 AM	#5 (permalink)
Mr Mxyzptlk Request Your Custom Title Now! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Trinidad and Tobago (Trinidad) Posts: 36,795	So am I the only one who doesn't find it odd at all that Ricky Ponting would criticise cricket on the subcontinent now?

14-12-2009, 10:55 AM	#9 (permalink)
Manee Cricketer Of The Year Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Heaven Posts: 8,201	I hate how Ponting wishes to hide behind a made up facet such as an increase in, or a comparitively large quantity of drawn Test matches in the subcontinent. It is quite simple, Indian fans are turning away from Test cricket and have lower attendences than in England, Australia, South Africa and for good reason - the pitches are slow, the weather hot and draining and conditions are not conducive to exciting cricket. Perhaps I am misinterpreting Ponting, but I believe that what he says it a veil behind his true criticism that cricket in the subcontinent is boring to watch and is of low popularity - a valid point.

14-12-2009, 11:08 AM	#12 (permalink)
GingerFurball Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Crabs Subbie Posts: 15,426	A few questions. If subcontinental pitches are flatter and easier for batting on, then why do so many non-subcontinental batsmen struggle in the subcontinent? If subcontinental pitches are easier to bat on then why do Laxman, Dravid and Tendulkar average more outside the subcontinent that they do inside the subcontinent for the decade? The reason you'll occasionally get games like the recent first Test between India and Sri Lanka is because sub continental batsmen find the conditions easier. They're used to them. For exactly the same reason that every Australian batsman (with the exception of Gilchrist) who has scored over 1,000 Test runs in Australia for the decade averages over 50 (in some cases, well over 50). In fact, the record of the best Australian batsmen at home is far superior to their Indian counterparts. Australia is just as bad as, if not worse than the subcontinent when it comes to flat, batsman friendly tracks. The only reason we've not seen more draws in Australia is largely down to the fact that Australia for the vast majority of the decade have had an excellent bowling attack.

14-12-2009, 11:10 AM	#14 (permalink)
GingerFurball Hall of Fame Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Crabs Subbie Posts: 15,426	Top Australian Run Scorers in Australia this decade: RT Ponting - 5183 @ 67.31 ML Hayden - 5033 @ 59.21 JL Langer - 3479 @ 51.82 AC Gilchrist - 2496 @ 43.78 MEK Hussey - 1945 @ 64.83 MJ Clarke - 1861 @ 58.15 DR Martyn - 1773 @ 52.14 SR Waugh - 1592 @ 53.06 Top Indian Run Scorers in India this decade: R Dravid - 3683 @ 53.37 SR Tendulkar - 3290 @ 52.22 V Sehwag - 3202 @ 56.17 VVS Laxman - 2703 @ 51.98 SC Ganguly - 2068 @ 39.76 G Gambhir - 1480 @ 49.33 MS Dhoni - 1116 @ 44.64 Only 2 of those Australian batsmen average over 50 outside of Australia for the decade - Gilchrist and Waugh. Laxman, Dravid and Tendulkar all average more outside the subcontinent for the decade than they do at home, and Ghambir averaged 89 on his 1 tour outside the subcontinent so far. So how do these Australian batsmen get on when they are faced with subcontinental "batting paradises"? (average in India alone in brackets - Clarke and Hussey have only played in India) RT Ponting - 652 @ 29.63 (21.85) ML Hayden - 1348 @ 48.14 (51.35) JL Langer - 727 @ 34.61 (29.92) AC Gilchrist - 614 @ 34.11 (28.50) MEK Hussey - 394 @ 56.28 MJ Clarke - 651 @ 46.50 DR Martyn - 864 @ 54.00 (55.50) SR Waugh - 274 @ 39.14 (48.60) Now how do the same group of Indian batsmen fare when they leave their comfort zones and travel to the "fairer" pitches of Australia? R Dravid - 885 @ 63.21 SR Tendulkar - 925 @ 66.07 V Sehwag - 750 @ 62.50 VVS Laxman - 1034 @ 64.62 SC Ganguly - 545 @ 34.06 G Gambhir - No Tests in Australia MS Dhoni - 141 @ 17.62 (1 series)

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