Rank the 4 great all rounders of the 1980s from best to worst

[Uppercut]

Imran did take a 10 fer and score a hundred in the same match once. As did Botham. I dont think, however, that he took a 5 fer and scored a hundred in the same game (apart from the one mentioned earlier) while Botham did it 4 times. Botham also, from recollection, scored a 50 and took a 5 fer in the same game 8 times. I dont know how many times Imran did this - although I would be surprised if he hadnt done it at least once.

Edit/ My list is Imran, Botham, Kapil, Hadlee.

The argument against Imran is that he was an awesome batsman and an awesome bowler, but was never realllly both at the same time.

I still think he's unreal though, his record speaks for itself. I'd take him over Sobers, personally.

 

[Prince EWS]

Imran
Hadlee
Botham
Dev

Hadlee's bowling superiority more than makes up for his batting deficiency compared to the others.

This.

 

[bagapath]

Could say something similar about Kapil's bowling tbf.

no way. 2 centuries in 86 tests dont equal 23 fivefers in 131.

hadlee was the best bowler of the four. but he was not in the same league as a batsman.

 

[subshakerz]

The argument against Imran is that he was an awesome batsman and an awesome bowler, but was never realllly both at the same time.

I still think he's unreal though, his record speaks for itself. I'd take him over Sobers, personally.

The fact is that during his peak bowling period (after the World Series Cup in 1980 to his last great bowling series against the WI in 1988) Imran also averaged 40 with the bat. So I don't totally believe this argument that he couldn't do both at the same time.

All-round records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

Also remember that during this period he was injured as a bowler yet managed to play for two years as a specialist batsman, top-scoring in the 83 World Cup and doing well in Australia.

As a player overall, Imran's value is right behind Sobers and Bradman IMO.

 

[subshakerz]

Imran very rarely performed with bat and ball at the same time. I think you will find that Botham took a 5 wicket haul and scored a 100 in the same match more times than Imran. I am not even sure if Imran has achieved that feat.

He did better.

HowSTAT! Match Scorecard

 

[aussie]

The argument against Imran is that he was an awesome batsman and an awesome bowler, but was never realllly both at the same time.

I still think he's unreal though, his record speaks for itself. I'd take him over Sobers, personally.

He was actually. As "all-rouder" combing solid batting with 90 mph bowling. From Lahore 1980 (when the scored his first test hundred) to Bridgetown 1988 (when he was last bowling 90 mph plus according to all that i've read). He averaged 40 with bat - 17 with the ball.

The myth with Imran comes as his crincinfo profile states he averaged 50 with the bat & 19with the ball. That batting average is inflated because after the WI tour 1988, his batting took off to a new level, while his bowling declined considerably.

 

[subshakerz]

For me it's Imran, Hadlee, Botham, Kapil. The first two are nailed on, the second two are interchangeable. I'm never sure how to rate Botham really.

This for me as well. Imran and Hadlee were overall much more valuable all-rounders.

Botham vs. Kapil: Botham reached heights Kapil never did, but Kapil was probably more consistent in the long run and did much better against the WI. Toss up.

 

[Dissector]

I agree. Imran by a fair distance. Then Hadlee. Then a toss-up between Kapil and Botham. I lean slightly towards Kapil for his exceptional bowling performances against the West Indies in 1983. Plus I think emerging as a fast bowler in India out of nowhere is a remarkable accomplishment which deserves bonus points.

 

[Zinzan]

Of course it depends entirely on what criteria you use to rate them.

At their very best, I'd probably choose Botham....

However, if I was reflecting over their entire Test careers as all-rounders I'd rate them something like;


1) Imran

Batting - For periods at the back end of his career was good enough to be selected for his batting alone, scored 6 hundreds & averaged late-30s - As a test batman 7.5

Bowling - A magnificent bowler who had it all; pace, swing, seam, control along with an intelligent mind. As a test bowler 9

Imran Total 16.5

2) Botham

Batting - Despite averaging 3-4 runs less than Imran with the bat, lets not forget he scored 14 test hundreds & at his best played some of the most memorable game-changing innings in Test history. Like Imran, for periods could have made it purely for his batting. 7.5

Bowling - His bowling career was one of two-halves. It's easy to forget what a great swing bowler Botham was in his early days, used to get it going really late, even before reverse swing was known as it is today. However in judging their whole careers, I need to consider his decline as a bowler. Overall bowling 8

Botham Total 15.5

3) Hadlee

Batting - Definitely the weakest batsman of the 4 & unlike Botham & Imran he wasn't good enough to make it purely as a batsman for much of his career. Whilst he did improve to average over 30 throughout the 2nd half of his career, in the final wash scored just 2 hundreds (& a 99). Overall batting 5.5

Bowling - An absolute Rolls Royce of fast bowlers (only 2nd to the great Marshall in my humble one-eyed NZ opinion ) who cut down his action and mastered the art of swing & seam bowling 9.5

Hadlee total 15

4) Kapil

Batting - Overall, I have him slightly behind Botham & Imran with the bat. For those that didn't see much of him, was a magnificent striker of the ball who did score 6 hundreds & averaged around 30 in the final wash 6.5

Bowling - It must be noted that he played much of his career on dry dung-heaps, although would still rate him as the weakest of the 4 when it comes to bowling. Had a magnificent action & could be a devastating swing bowler in the right conditions 7.5

Kapil total 14



Obviously haven't included captaincy as Hadlee never captained NZ & for the record...as fieldsmen, I'd rank Botham 1st & the other 3 about the same.

 

[Zinzan]

Could say something similar about Kapil's bowling tbf.

For me it's Imran, Hadlee, Botham, Kapil. The first two are nailed on, the second two are interchangeable. I'm never sure how to rate Botham really.

Nah, even as a bias Kiwi I rank Beefy ahead of Hadlee if we're judging them purely as all-rounders for reasons made in my previous post

 

[Hurricane]

Watched hadlee get a 76 in an ODI once he was pretty rugged as a batsman. Though I concede not as good as the others.

 

[bagapath]

bowling

hadlee>imran>>botham>kapil

batting

botham>imran>kapil>>hadlee

fielding

botham=kapil>imran = hadlee

all rounder

botham>imran>kapil>hadlee

 

[Zinzan]

bowling

hadlee>imran>>botham>kapil

batting

botham>imran>kapil>>hadlee

fielding

botham=kapil>imran = hadlee

all rounder

botham>imran>kapil>hadlee

Each to their own of course

Not sure if this is being outrageously biased of not, but I'd actually rank Chris Cairns about the same as Dev if wasn't reading too much into the whole longevity piece

 

[bagapath]

Not sure if this is being outrageously biased of not, but I'd actually rank Chris Cairns about the same as Dev if wasn't reading too much into the whole longevity piece

They were probably of the same caliber as batsmen. kapil was a better bowler, though. overall cairns would be marginally behind dev, IMO

 

[subshakerz]

Of course it depends entirely on what criteria you use to rate them.

At their very best, I'd probably choose Botham....

However, if I was reflecting over their entire Test careers as all-rounders I'd rate them something like;


1) Imran

Batting - For periods at the back end of his career was good enough to be selected for his batting alone, scored 6 hundreds & averaged late-30s - As a test batman 7.5

Bowling - A magnificent bowler who had it all; pace, swing, seam, control along with an intelligent mind. As a test bowler 9

Imran Total 16.5

2) Botham

Batting - Despite averaging 3-4 runs less than Imran with the bat, lets not forget he scored 14 test hundreds & at his best played some of the most memorable game-changing innings in Test history. Like Imran, for periods could have made it purely for his batting. 7.5

Bowling - His bowling career was one of two-halves. It's easy to forget what a great swing bowler Botham was in his early days, used to get it going really late, even before reverse swing was known as it is today. However in judging their whole careers, I need to consider his decline as a bowler. Overall bowling 8

Botham Total 15.5

3) Hadlee

Batting - Definitely the weakest batsman of the 4 & unlike Botham & Imran he wasn't good enough to make it purely as a batsman for much of his career. Whilst he did improve to average over 30 throughout the 2nd half of his career, in the final wash scored just 2 hundreds (& a 99). Overall batting 5.5

Bowling - An absolute Rolls Royce of fast bowlers (only 2nd to the great Marshall in my humble one-eyed NZ opinion ) who cut down his action and mastered the art of swing & seam bowling 9.5

Hadlee total 15

4) Kapil

Batting - Overall, I have him slightly behind Botham & Imran with the bat. For those that didn't see much of him, was a magnificent striker of the ball who did score 6 hundreds & averaged around 30 in the final wash 6.5

Bowling - It must be noted that he played much of his career on dry dung-heaps, although would still rate him as the weakest of the 4 when it comes to bowling. Had a magnificent action & could be a devastating swing bowler in the right conditions 7.5

Kapil total 14



Obviously haven't included captaincy as Hadlee never captained NZ & for the record...as fieldsmen, I'd rank Botham 1st & the other 3 about the same.

Decent analysis but I feel Kapil ranks ahead of Botham as a test bowler and I would switch their rankings.

 

[bagapath]

.as fieldsmen, I'd rank Botham 1st & the other 3 about the same.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO... pl dont do this to kapil. imran and hadlee were average/poor fielders. but kapil was fantastic. please tell me you hadnt actually seen him field and made a wild guess. please...

 

[jboss]

MJ Procter

 

[honestbharani]

Imran
Hadlee
Botham
Dev

Hadlee's bowling superiority more than makes up for his batting deficiency compared to the others.

awta

 

[Zinzan]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO... pl dont do this to kapil. imran and hadlee were average/poor fielders. but kapil was fantastic. please tell me you hadnt actually seen him field and made a wild guess. please...

Funny, I was just about to ask if you'd seen Hadlee field or whether you label him average-to-poor based on his fielding stats i.e no of catches

To answer your question, yes I have seen them all & in reflection Dev probably was a better field than Hadlee & Imran, but not by the huge margin your making out & neither Imran or Hadlee were close to poor.

 

[bagapath]

Funny, I was just about to ask if you'd seen Hadlee field or whether you label him average-to-poor based on his fielding stats i.e no of catches

To answer your question, yes I have seen them all & in reflection Dev probably was a better field than Hadlee & Imran, but not by the huge margin your making out & neither Imran or Hadlee were close to poor.

fair enough. as long as it is clear to you that dev was a better fielder than imran and hadlee it is fine by me. hadlee was probably competent but imran was notoriously unreliable on the field. we even had a separate thread about great cricketers who were mediocre in the field and his name was the first i had.