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Australians have alot to say now that they're winning ? - Tony Cozier

Mr Mxyzptlk

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Powell doesn't have many gifts, and doesn't bowl well often. I think he must be cousins with someone on the WICB.
I've seen enough of Powell to know that he has a lot of ability. The skill that he lacks is discipline, and that's pretty much the most important thing as a fast bowler. Powell has bowled some truly beautiful spells in Tests previously, but has never been remotely consistent enough to be considered remotely close to Test class. The fact that he was picked consistently by West Indies anyway seemed to point to an insecurity, and a lack of faith in the alternatives, rather than any particular faith in Powell. Aside from Roach, the cupboard is still pretty bare.
My point with Marshall was lost on you, he's been picked for the test team previously despite a extremely modest first class record.
And Ganga's been picked for the team previously too. He failed and was discarded and they tried Marshall, who has failed and been discarded. Your point doesn't seem to be very strong really. If you're talking about Marshall's domestic record before he was picked, I think you'll find that Ganga did similarly precious little before he was first picked for West Indies.

The fact is that at this stage, Ganga's record is a lot worse than others in the position. Even Travis Dowlin, for all his mediocrity, is ahead of him. And justifiably so.
 

Rant0r

International 12th Man
Powell is ordinary, by any stretch of the imagination, No other international team would pick him. He would struggle in grade cricket in Perth. Anyone can bowl the odd unplayable delivery, that makes us good backyard cricketers.

And for the record it wasn't my point. It was a point made after the Brisbane test by a commentator who thought he should be captain, and the argument that his record wasn't good enough to be in the team as a batsman alone wasn't a strong enough one because of the dearth of talent around made that argument null and void. For example players such as Marshall previously being picked on thin First Class record/exerience.

But looking at it now sure there may not be a place for him, but when the top order was failing and Gayle's captaincy was under fire it looked like a good idea. When they lose the next test it will come up again.
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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Powell is ordinary, by any stretch of the imagination, No other international team would pick him. He would struggle in grade cricket in Perth. Anyone can bowl the odd unplayable delivery, that makes us good backyard cricketers.
No one is arguing that Powell is anything but a terrible bowler, so I don't know what you hope to achieve here. I've had my say on it.
And for the record it wasn't my point. It was a point made after the Brisbane test by a commentator who thought he should be captain, and the argument that his record wasn't good enough to be in the team as a batsman alone wasn't a strong enough one because of the dearth of talent around made that argument null and void. For example players such as Marshall previously being picked on thin First Class record/exerience.
But Ganga was also picked on thin FC experience. Sure he was picked too early as well and has since improved, but the fact is that the player he is now is far from the player he was back in 1998/99. It's a very similar situation to Marshall - a teenager who was picked on potential. That both of them have since failed and been discarded doesn't help Ganga's case. It actually shows some measure of good, if belated, selection policy,

Only if Marshall was being persisted with would there be a point there.
But looking at it now sure there may not be a place for him, but when the top order was failing and Gayle's captaincy was under fire it looked like a good idea. When they lose the next test it will come up again.
I've always been a very keen admirer of Ganga's captaincy. I'm sure there's evidence on this forum of me calling him the best leader in the region, because he is undoubtedly that. Head and shoulders above the rest. He instills discipline, commands respect, is always thinking, proactive and inspirational. But he simply is not a good enough Test batsman. Believe you me, I wanted as much as anyone for him to prove himself at Test level. I still avidly follow his FC career, and I was overjoyed when he scored those 2 hundreds against Australia, a seeming lifetime ago.

But to my dismay, and probably that of a struggling team needing strong and committed leadership, he just has not kicked on. But he's a realist, and I'm sure he too understands why he is being overlooked.

All that said, the selectors' reason for not picking him for the Australia tour were "he hasn't been scoring runs domestically" which is certainly not the case. But that just proves how utterly useless the West Indies selectors are, if they misplace their stats so appallingly.
 

Rant0r

International 12th Man
You said Powell has potential, i'm saying he does not.

Marshall was just the example that came to mind, i'm not rifling through pages and pages of average West Indian cricketers picked in the test team
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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I've seen enough of Powell to know that he can bowl well. But he is a very bad bowler. That's all I have to say. We can agree to disagree. I'm fine with that.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Daren Powell. Pace, movement, and when he's ready, probing accuracy. All the assets to be a very good pace bowler. But he's he's not much of a bowler.

Daren Ganga. Beautiful defensive game, pretty much all the strokes technically sound. All the assets to be a very good Test batsman. But he's not much of a batsman.

If you don't apply your gifts, you can't be considered any more than gifted. 'Gifted' is not on it's own wicket-taking attribute.
But Powell and Ganga didn't do it enough times. Morkel has bowled good spells a fair few times. I have followed him very closely. I know it is subjective who calls what 'a fair few times' but I believe Morkel has done more than enough for it to be a bit degrading to call him 'not much of a bowler'.
 
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marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
I dont remember it like that. Going into the series England were big favourites and the stronger team. The best team won and as you said the margin could have been greater.
No most people don't remember it like that, but some still insist that what happened wasn't the case.
 

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