View Poll Results: Who really is the worst player to play Tests for England since 1990?

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  • Wayne Larkins

    0 0%
  • David Capel

    0 0%
  • Eddie Hemmings

    1 3.70%
  • Neil Williams

    0 0%
  • Derek Pringle

    0 0%
  • Ian Botham

    1 3.70%
  • Dermot Reeve

    0 0%
  • Mike Gatting

    0 0%
  • Paul Jarvis

    0 0%
  • John Emburey

    0 0%
  • Neil Foster

    0 0%
  • Mike Watkinson

    0 0%
  • Ben Hollioake

    1 3.70%
  • Gavin Hamilton

    2 7.41%
  • Chris Schofield

    2 7.41%
  • Usman Afzaal

    1 3.70%
  • James Ormond

    0 0%
  • Richard Dawson

    4 14.81%
  • Anthony McGrath

    1 3.70%
  • Gareth Batty

    1 3.70%
  • Geraint Jones

    0 0%
  • Liam Plunkett

    0 0%
  • Ian Blackwell

    1 3.70%
  • Sajid Mahmood

    9 33.33%
  • Darren Pattinson

    2 7.41%
  • Amjad Khan

    1 3.70%
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Thread: Who really is the worst player to play for England since 1990?

  1. #1
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Who really is the worst player to play for England since 1990?

    In undertaking a recent project it's occurred to me just how many truly awful players have played Tests for England in the last two decades (forget ODIs - the list there is just too depressing to even start on). Things have been better, true, than they were in the second half of the 1980s when England won 3 Tests in 42, virtually no-one had any success and Test caps were thrown around like they were play toys. But there've still been any number of players play in that time who clearly had absolutely no chance of success, some of whom had once been decent or even great players.

    So, CWers, who d'you reckon is the worst?

    Would probably go for Saj myself, just below Dawson.
    Last edited by Richard; 19-11-2009 at 06:50 PM.
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  2. #2
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Uppercut's Avatar
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    Salisbury. Head and shoulders below the rest.

  3. #3
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    Salisbury. Head and shoulders below the rest.
    Not talking about who performed the worst when they got to Test level - he clearly takes that out head-and-shoulders indeed - but who was the worst. Salisbury was a good domestic cricketer for a number of years in the 1990s and 2000s, something none of the above were.
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  4. #4
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    In undertaking a recent project it's occurred to me just how many truly awful players have played for England in the last two decades. Things have been better, true, than they were in the second half of the 1980s when England won 3 Tests in 42, virtually no-one had any success and Test caps were thrown around like they were play toys. But there've still been any number of players play in that time who clearly had absolutely no chance of success, some of whom had once been decent or even great players.

    So, CWers, who d'you reckon is the worst?
    Test cricket only?

    Worst player? or worst selection?
    If I only just posted the above post, please wait 5 mins before replying as there will be edits

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  5. #5
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Tests only, and worst player rather than worst selection. Pattinson is clearly the worst selection for me for reasons I've stated before, though there have indeed been several other truly awful, completely baseless picks.
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  6. #6
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    First impressions is to be biased against guys of roughly my age that were not that special when I saw them first hand on the field. Guys like Ben Hollioake, Chris Schofield and Richard Dawson would have been the backbone of a decent club side but at International level they never had a chance of being anything but poor.

    Thinking about it Id hate to pick a spinner as the worst pick as there has never been a great deal of choice.

    So possibly Hollioake (pick one), Amjad Khan, Saj, Bresnan or Darren Maddy.

    Going to go with Ben Hollioake as I think it was a desperation selection with zero chance of success.
    Last edited by Goughy; 19-11-2009 at 07:00 PM.

  7. #7
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Thing that always holds me back with Hollioake Jnr. is that we never found-out whether he was going to continue to be as middling as he was during his tragically short life. He may well have done so, but he did seem to me to have talent above the level of most others on my list, so could - to me - conceivably have kicked-on to become an OK player (never the superstar that a few thought BTW).

    As for Darren Maddy he was an awful selection given that Steve James had been bashing down the door for God-knows-how-many years only to have someone never fit to lace his boots picked instead. But Maddy has at least had a long and not-too-bad county career.
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  8. #8
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend morgieb's Avatar
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    Schofield or Dawson.

    Hamilton was clearly the worst performed at test level, but his county record was very good, and he played pretty good for Scotland in 1999 WC.
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  9. #9
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Thing that always holds me back with Hollioake Jnr. is that we never found-out whether he was going to continue to be as middling as he was during his tragically short life. He may well have done so, but he did seem to me to have talent above the level of most others on my list, so could - to me - conceivably have kicked-on to become an OK player (never the superstar that a few thought BTW).
    A career as what? Not much place for a 7-8 batsman and occasional bowler at Test level. He had swagger and bounce but poor batting technique and below average bowling. It wasnt going to get any better.

    At least Bresnan has a bit more about his bowling and I have a soft spot for Capel and he bustled.

  10. #10
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend morgieb's Avatar
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    And why the **** are Gatting and Botham on the list?

  11. #11
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morgieb View Post
    And why the **** are Gatting and Botham on the list?
    Because they were both absolutely awful by the time they received their totally erroneous recalls in 1991 and 1992/93 respectively. And Gatting even got picked again in 1994/95. Make no mistake, Botham had once been a brilliant player and Gatting a very fine one, but the fact that either played in the 1990s served to do nothing but taint their legacies. Botham should have played last in 1987 and Gatting should never have returned after electing for that Rebel tour in 1989.
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  12. #12
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend morgieb's Avatar
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    And why isn't Sailsbury on the list? He averaged 70 FFS. That's worse than Plunkett or Mahmood most likely.

  13. #13
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    A career as what? Not much place for a 7-8 batsman and occasional bowler at Test level. He had swagger and bounce but poor batting technique and below average bowling. It wasnt going to get any better.
    I still think he could - possibly - have been an OK county cricketer. Obviously he was never going to be Test-class and his selection in 1997 was, as you say, borne of nothing but desperation and an attempt to reinvigorate the success of the ODIs earlier in the summer where his youthfulness had felt such a part (whether it actually was is another matter). His second selection in 1998 arguably had even less going for it and there's pretty much no way it would've happened had the Test not been a one-off.

    But many of those on that list struggled to have much of a career at county level, and of those who did none were that good (except Emburey, Gatting, Botham, Hemmings, Pringle and Foster who had deteriorated notably by the time 1990 rolled around). If Ben Hollioake could have had a successful county career - and I'm not saying I implicitly think he could - then he'd certainly have outstripped most on that list. In the tragically short career he was allowed due to his life being cut short, he definately qualifies for consideration.
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  14. #14
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morgieb View Post
    And why isn't Sailsbury on the list? He averaged 70 FFS. That's worse than Plunkett or Mahmood most likely.
    As I've already said, he had far more success at First-Class county level than Plunkett or Mahmood have ever had and probably ever will have. This isn't about who was worst performed at Test level but who was the worst cricketer. None of the above remotely deserved Test selection; Salisbury actually did, even if he was never going to be successful having got there. The same might be said of, for instance, Devon Malcolm or Richard Illingworth.
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  15. #15
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morgieb View Post
    Hamilton was clearly the worst performed at test level, but his county record was very good, and he played pretty good for Scotland in 1999 WC.
    Hamilton had 2 years of being an excellent county cricketer (1998 and 1999) and aside from those two did nothing. Those couple of seasons were not even full programmes of appearances, and he is a classic case of an apparently exciting talent being rushed in before anyone has taken care to see whether there is longevity there, which with Hamilton there simply wasn't. Just a couple of years after he appeared in Tests he'd completely lost the ability to bowl, something that does not happen very often.
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