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Who really is the worst player to play for England since 1990?

Who really is the worst player to play Tests for England since 1990?

  • Wayne Larkins

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • David Capel

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Neil Williams

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Derek Pringle

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Dermot Reeve

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mike Gatting

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Paul Jarvis

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • John Emburey

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Neil Foster

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mike Watkinson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • James Ormond

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Geraint Jones

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Liam Plunkett

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Richard, if that is your logic regarding Salisbury then how is Paul Jarvis on the list?

Makes no sense. Did you ever see him bowl?
Only in 1999, by which time he was long past his best. I have not, yet, fully familiarised myself with his entire story and don't deny that I may be mistaken in having him on the list. All I know is that by 1999 he was truly dreadful, performed awfully in his Tests and was plagued by injury all career.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Alan Wells is desperately upset to be left out of the poll.
Even though Wells was 33 by the time he played and there were many better candidates, he actually averaged 48.59 in First-Class county cricket between 1989 and 1995 and had made productive A tours in 1993/94 and 1994/95. If he wasn't going to play earlier he shouldn't have debuted in 1995, but he was a very good batsman for a while and if he'd developed earlier and\or not elected for the Rebel tour he might possibly have had a shot at an OK Test career.
And having Neil Foster on that list is an abomination. He had some excellent days for England - albeit in the 80s. I'm guessing this is one of those names you've put in there only due to semantics.
Included on the basis that he was recalled as a 31-year-old whose time was clearly up (he retired a week after his last Test). In 1993, when he played, he was a wreck.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Geraint Jones wasn't even the worst 'keeper to play for England from 1990, let alone the worst player.
He was pretty bad when first picked, though he did indeed get much better. But as a batsman he was actually one of the worst. Picked based on a single good season in 2003, which he was never to repeat until 2009. Had Stewart retired a year later he'd almost certainly have come nowhere near Test cricket and in all honesty it'd have saved plenty of people plenty of angst had that happened.

I'm presuming you mean Prior as the even-worse wicketkeeper, because Russell, Stewart, Blakey, Rhodes, Hegg, Read, Foster and Ambrose were\are certainly all better than he initially was.

BTW I'd certainly not pick Geraint as the worst player in the last two decades but I do think he fits into the "players who never had a hope of being successful in Tests and should never have been picked" category.
 

HeathDavisSpeed

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Included on the basis that he was recalled as a 31-year-old whose time was clearly up (he retired a week after his last Test). In 1993, when he played, he was a wreck.
Well, clearly Foster wasn't the worst player to turn out for England in the 90s, if you are wanting to consider their overall ability. Even in the 90s with all of his injury problems, I recall him having some very good games for Essex (though I may be confusing the late 80s with the 90s)

And I agree with you on Wells, I was being somewhat tongue in cheek that a batsman who averaged 0 for England wasn't on the list.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Thats more of a resume than some and losing the ability to bowl years later is not relevant to his selection at the time.

Sure it is rare but people do lose the ability to bowl. Just look at poor Keith Medlycott
I agree it isn't relevant to his selection at the time but it does emphasise just how hasty his selection was. Hamilton looked like he might be a special talent in 1998 and 1999, but he was rushed in before anyone really knew whether he was or was just a flash-in-the-pan. He turned-out to be the latter.

Aside from 1998 and 1999, which were both merely part-seasons, not full campaigns, Hamilton did pretty much nothing at all at county level. I wish he had, because he really excited me in 1999, and maybe with different alignment of stars he might have (I don't know, I've not read any autobios or heard anyone really suggest just what went wrong). He had more to recommend him than Ben Hollioake, but he was a terribly hasty selection.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Well, clearly Foster wasn't the worst player to turn out for England in the 90s, if you are wanting to consider their overall ability. Even in the 90s with all of his injury problems, I recall him having some very good games for Essex (though I may be confusing the late 80s with the 90s)
As I say, I'm not saying he was, I think Saj and Dawson were both much worse. But you'd struggle to justify replacing Phillip DeFreitas with him in 1993 regardless of how far you looked - because he was crocked, and had no hope of being around much longer. He wasn't much of a bowler by 1993 and was an awful selection.

I'm not saying "who was the worst cricketer, considering entire careers, of those who appeared in the 1990s and 2000s"; rather, "considering only cricket from 1990 onwards, who was the worst?" For the former, Foster would indeed not be remotely worthy of consideration; for the latter, he certainly is.
And I agree with you on Wells, I was being somewhat tongue in cheek that a batsman who averaged 0 for England wasn't on the list.
:huh: He averaged 3, after spending 39 balls making 3* in the second-innings as a dreadfully dreary game was drifting to an inevitable draw.
 
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HeathDavisSpeed

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
:huh: He averaged 3, after spending 39 balls making 3* in the second-innings as a dreadfully dreary game was drifting to an inevitable draw.
Memory playing tricks with me I must confess. Not in the best of ways today; though I can never resist a discussion about mediocre English test cricketers. I find it very cathartic.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Because they were both absolutely awful by the time they received their totally erroneous recalls in 1991 and 1992/93 respectively. And Gatting even got picked again in 1994/95. Make no mistake, Botham had once been a brilliant player and Gatting a very fine one, but the fact that either played in the 1990s served to do nothing but taint their legacies. Botham should have played last in 1987 and Gatting should never have returned after electing for that Rebel tour in 1989.
This kind of contradicts the point you keep making about it being the worst cricketers in general and not the worst performed cricketers in Tests though, doesn't? They may have been poor when they played in the 90s but they were good players all the same.
 

Burgey

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Dawson was horrendous, Jarvis laughable.

But who the **** is Neil Williams?
 

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
I dunno but Neil Smith surely needs to be on the list too. Highest ODI score of 31 against the might of the UAE in 1996. Was picked on the strength of his bowling (nude nuts, for the record) and ended up opening the batting!
 

Noble One

International Vice-Captain
Voted for Dawson. Possibly the worst international spinner I have ever witnessed.

Hardly recall him ever turning a delivery, and had no other redeeming feature like accuracy, drift or ability to change his pace up.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Voted for Dawson. Possibly the worst international spinner I have ever witnessed.

Hardly recall him ever turning a delivery, and had no other redeeming feature like accuracy, drift or ability to change his pace up.
Quite an exaggeration on Dawson if you ask me. Dawson never had a hope of succeeding at the test match level, but he certainly wasn't the worst spin bowler I have seen, and certainly not worse than Ian Salisbury. Couldn't care less about Salisbury's figures in domestic cricket, he played enough games at the international level to be considered the worst player since 1960. I don't believe the perspective that he 'froze' or underperformed at the international level.

Anyhow, since he isn't on the list, my vote goes for Amjad Khan. How anyone could have expected him to succeed with that kind of action is beyond me. The lad could barely land 6 balls in an over on the pitch map. Schofield is the only other I can think off on that list that comes close to matching him.
 
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tooextracool

International Coach
Only in 1999, by which time he was long past his best. I have not, yet, fully familiarised myself with his entire story and don't deny that I may be mistaken in having him on the list. All I know is that by 1999 he was truly dreadful, performed awfully in his Tests and was plagued by injury all career.
Jarvis may not have been an exceptional bowler but he certainly made a name for himself on the tour to India in 1992/93 where he stood out in the one day series by having Tendulkar in knots and then impressed many in the test series as well although he was probably not test class. Don't think he comes close to as poor as the rest on that list.

And what on earth is Ormond on that list for? County pro who could swing the ball both ways at a decent pace and really only didnt get a consistent run in the test side because of his weight issues.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Ok I can understand the frustration with Mahmood and he really shouldn't be in any of the England squads at the moment but worst player in the last 50 years? You dont go around taking cheap wickets for the A team in some of the harshest bowling conditions for pace bowlers- India, WI and SL at an average in the low 20s if that was true. Mahmood is not a good bowler, but if he gets his accuracy sorted out, he has the potential to be a very good one.
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
Dawson was horrendous, Jarvis laughable.

But who the **** is Neil Williams?
Middlesex seamer who, iirc, won his single cap against India in 1990.
You have to remember that our domestic game didn't produce much in the way of quality in the late 1980s :)
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
Using Richard's criteria, Neil Foster and Mike Gatting should be nowhere near that list. They were among the best seamers and batsmen (respectively) in domestic cricket when picked in the early 90s.

A couple of the spinners in the list are outstandingly bad but, again, John Emburey should be nowhere near that list as he too was still a very fine bowler in the early 90s - and enjoyed notable success (IIRC) by bowling a more attacking line than he had in the 80s.

Joey Benjamin also fortunate to escape nomination, but perhaps not as bad a pick as NF Williams. Who incidentally had probably the least sensible initials for a non-white player.
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
Because they were both absolutely awful by the time they received their totally erroneous recalls in 1991 and 1992/93 respectively. And Gatting even got picked again in 1994/95. Make no mistake, Botham had once been a brilliant player and Gatting a very fine one, but the fact that either played in the 1990s served to do nothing but taint their legacies. Botham should have played last in 1987 and Gatting should never have returned after electing for that Rebel tour in 1989.
The "absolutely awful" Mike Gatting in first class cricket in 1992, before his totally erroneous recall in 92/93:

10 x 50
6 x 100

Of his 50s, five were scores of 86 or higher. With a bit luck he could have scored 11 FC centuries that year.

If England could select some more "absolutely awful" players of that class, we'd be sitting pretty.

He was arguably the best player in the country at that point.

Mike Gatting in first class cricket in 1994 before his selection in 94/95:

6 50s
6 centuries including 3 double centuries

His double centuries, 2 of them unbeaten, came against
- England A (McCague, Ilott, Bicknell, Dale, Such, Croft)
- Leicestershire (Millns and Mullally)
- Northants (Ambrose).

At this point he was still arguably the best player in the country.
 

Lillian Thomson

Hall of Fame Member
Most of the names on that list shouldn't have played for England in a million years (excluding those that peaked pre-1990.) There's a few not on the list that are worthy of a dishonourable mention having merited selection and then turned out to be dung.
Ian Salisbury
Jason Gallian
Martin McCague
 

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