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After the Don, who is Australia's best cricketer...
- Thread starter hourn
- Start date
Bazza
International 12th Man
Waugh and McGrath deserve to be in this poll. Ponting doesn't and nor do Hayden or Gilchrist. Maybe in 5 years time when they are in their twilight and you can see what they have achieved.
To say Ponting is going to score 35-40 test centuries is just speculation. When he's done that, he will be a great. Until then all he has is potential.
To say Ponting is going to score 35-40 test centuries is just speculation. When he's done that, he will be a great. Until then all he has is potential.
Neil Pickup
Cricket Web Moderator
Ponting at present I would bracket with Vaughan, Lara and Tendulkar as the top four in the world so he merits his place here.
Warne, McGrath and Steve "10,000 runs" Waugh also clearly do.
Hayden and Gilchrist don't, reasons have been outlined earlier.
I think a certain Mr Ponsford is the most glaring omission.
Warne, McGrath and Steve "10,000 runs" Waugh also clearly do.
Hayden and Gilchrist don't, reasons have been outlined earlier.
I think a certain Mr Ponsford is the most glaring omission.
age_master
Hall of Fame Member
OK, Lets have a look at 3 of them, Border, Waugh and Gilly
Border
M I NO Runs HS Ave 100 50 Ct St
Batting & Fielding 156 265 44 11174 205 50.56 27 63 156 0
Balls M R W Ave BBI 5 10 SR Econ
Bowling 4009 197 1525 39 39.10 7-46 2 1 102.7 2.28
Averaging 50 at a SR of 50 for a long time, record for most runs. not many wickets considering he once took a 7 haul
Waugh
TESTS
(including 25/07/2003)
M I NO Runs HS Ave SR 100 50 Ct St
Batting & Fielding 162 251 45 10521 200 51.07 48.45 32 46 109 0
O M R W Ave BBI 5 10 SR Econ
Bowling 1252.5 324 3320 91 36.48 5-28 3 0 82.6 2.64
Similar Record to border, slightly lower SR, more wickets, though he has bowled a fair it more.
Gilly
TESTS
(including 25/07/2003)
M I NO Runs HS Ave SR 100 50 Ct St
Batting & Fielding 45 62 12 2940 204* 58.80 82.65 8 16 176 16
not anywhere near as many matches, Brilliant SR of 82, most batsmen dont have a SR that high in ODI's. average of 58.8 slightly higher because he bats lower down th order. he unlike the other 2 has however the ability to completley desimate any attack in the world with little effort.
Border
M I NO Runs HS Ave 100 50 Ct St
Batting & Fielding 156 265 44 11174 205 50.56 27 63 156 0
Balls M R W Ave BBI 5 10 SR Econ
Bowling 4009 197 1525 39 39.10 7-46 2 1 102.7 2.28
Averaging 50 at a SR of 50 for a long time, record for most runs. not many wickets considering he once took a 7 haul
Waugh
TESTS
(including 25/07/2003)
M I NO Runs HS Ave SR 100 50 Ct St
Batting & Fielding 162 251 45 10521 200 51.07 48.45 32 46 109 0
O M R W Ave BBI 5 10 SR Econ
Bowling 1252.5 324 3320 91 36.48 5-28 3 0 82.6 2.64
Similar Record to border, slightly lower SR, more wickets, though he has bowled a fair it more.
Gilly
TESTS
(including 25/07/2003)
M I NO Runs HS Ave SR 100 50 Ct St
Batting & Fielding 45 62 12 2940 204* 58.80 82.65 8 16 176 16
not anywhere near as many matches, Brilliant SR of 82, most batsmen dont have a SR that high in ODI's. average of 58.8 slightly higher because he bats lower down th order. he unlike the other 2 has however the ability to completley desimate any attack in the world with little effort.
luckyeddie
Cricket Web Staff Member
I find it amazing that there are as many votes for Gilchrist as for anyone else. Short lifetimes, short memories, short attention sp... I wonder what's on the telly?
Mr Mxyzptlk
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Very true. Especially at 400/5...marc71178 said:
Mr Mxyzptlk
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No he's not. Steven and Adam are tied atop the leaderboard. Shane only has 2 votes.
Eclipse
International Debutant
That does not make sense were you agreeing with marc or contredicting him.Mr Mxyzptlk said:
Surley at 400/5 the feilding team is not going to be attacking that much.
Any way it may be easy to score runs quickly in test cricket but it's bloody well not easy to do it and avrage 60.
And dont get the impression Gilly has an easy ride to that avrage ether the old mith about him coming in and scoring meaningless 100's etc.. when the top order has allready done the work has already been statisticly proven incorect.
Other than Steve Waugh Gilly is the guy most Australian's would like to have batting in a crisis because he has done so well in those situations before.
Bazza
International 12th Man
Neil I disagree that Ponting deserves his place because he is one of the top four batsmen in the world. If we had this poll a year ago would Hayden have deserved his spot then?
If we did a similar poll for England would you really include Vaughan? Like I said, Ponting (and Vaughan) has had a great career so far, but if it all went pear shaped and he was dropped within a year, they wouldn't deserve that place.
It's like speculation in baseball about who will get in the HoF. You can only get in after you stop playing and then a couple of years on everyone looks at what you achieve, and then you get the nod.
You can't say Ponting has been one fo Australia's all time greatest players because he has 17 centuries! There are 7 (not including DGB) other Australian batsmen ahead of him. So if he is the 8th batsmen, how can he be in the top 15ish players by the time you include bowlers, wks, allrounders?
These arguments are always hard because you have to wigh up quantity against quality. Gilchrist has had a spectacular career (average 58, high SR plus keeps wicket), but only has 3000 runs, whereas Waugh has 10000 runs at 51 and Border has 11000 runs at 50. Which is better? That is a matter of opinion.
People always ask Benaud questions like this, and he would bias players form the 30s, 40s, 50s more than the present day. Is this because he played with those guys or because nobody else remembers how good they were?
Maybe a way to do it would be to pick the best team without Bradman and only include that 11? Of course in that situation you could only have one keeper out of Marsh, Healy and Gilchrist, so how would you decide which to have?
I'll have a crack anyway, please bear in mind this is off the top of my head and I have limited knowledge of past Australian cricketers:
Taylor
Border
Ponsford
Chappell (not Trevor!)
Harvey (not Ian!)
Waugh (not Mark!)
Healy
Warne
Grimmett
Lillee
McGrath
If we did a similar poll for England would you really include Vaughan? Like I said, Ponting (and Vaughan) has had a great career so far, but if it all went pear shaped and he was dropped within a year, they wouldn't deserve that place.
It's like speculation in baseball about who will get in the HoF. You can only get in after you stop playing and then a couple of years on everyone looks at what you achieve, and then you get the nod.
You can't say Ponting has been one fo Australia's all time greatest players because he has 17 centuries! There are 7 (not including DGB) other Australian batsmen ahead of him. So if he is the 8th batsmen, how can he be in the top 15ish players by the time you include bowlers, wks, allrounders?
These arguments are always hard because you have to wigh up quantity against quality. Gilchrist has had a spectacular career (average 58, high SR plus keeps wicket), but only has 3000 runs, whereas Waugh has 10000 runs at 51 and Border has 11000 runs at 50. Which is better? That is a matter of opinion.
People always ask Benaud questions like this, and he would bias players form the 30s, 40s, 50s more than the present day. Is this because he played with those guys or because nobody else remembers how good they were?
Maybe a way to do it would be to pick the best team without Bradman and only include that 11? Of course in that situation you could only have one keeper out of Marsh, Healy and Gilchrist, so how would you decide which to have?
I'll have a crack anyway, please bear in mind this is off the top of my head and I have limited knowledge of past Australian cricketers:
Taylor
Border
Ponsford
Chappell (not Trevor!)
Harvey (not Ian!)
Waugh (not Mark!)
Healy
Warne
Grimmett
Lillee
McGrath
Mr Mxyzptlk
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Surely it's not going to be an ODI field. You still attempt to get him out. You still have a slip and a gully at the least.Eclipse said:
Mr Mxyzptlk
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I can't think of many teams that would operate without at least one slip (unless a spinner's bolwing).
Eclipse
International Debutant
I think Ponting deserves a mention on that list he is allready 5th on the alltime International Hundreds list with 31 thats only 7 Behind Mark Waugh on 38 who Is Second to Tendulkar who is on some crazy figure
In 4-5 years time there will be Tendulkar, Ponting then daylight as far 100's go.
In 4-5 years time there will be Tendulkar, Ponting then daylight as far 100's go.