*Official* West Indies In Australia

[Clapo]

Originally Posted by vic_orthdox

If Lee plays the First Test without playing a four day game for NSW beforehand, it's lunacy.

Yeah do agree with this. Want him on the team, but he needs to get through a least one FC match first.

[howardj]

Originally Posted by Uppercut

Unless 90mph yorkers that reverse a mile are no longer any use in test cricket, he's awesome. No one who has watched him bowl since the start of the English summer could possibly argue otherwise.

With respect, he has always been a good white ball bowler.

TO bring this 34 year old guy back, who averaged 47 with the red ball last summer, and who is injury prone, is a retrogressive, nonsensical move.

[aussie]

Originally Posted by howardj

The big flaw in that argument is that he destroyed the NZ lineup in the 2 Tests smack bang in the middle of the two aforementioned series. He showed no signs of injury then - rather, he was up against a popgun batting line up.

No Lee himself said otherwise, which looking back is cleary true. Lee went into the IND series not playing any cricket (test, ODIs or t20s) since WI 08 because of marriage issues - thus as Lee & the entire AUS attack came up againts IND on those flat pitches & failed to get the ball to reverse swing, the all struggled.

Lee clearly up until he got injured in the boxing day test wasn't bowling with his typical rhythm. Lee taking 5 vs NZ is more a referendum on how poor the NZs batting was ATT - rather than Lee showing any form.

Originally Posted by Matt79

Uppercut, you're confusing Lee's ODI form, and possibly also one brief spell against the Lions with his test bowling. The two need to be looked at quite seperately because Lee's career record shows there's little correlation with him being a world beater with the white ball, and often only average with the red. In any case, I just can't see him bowling a full load in back to back tests.

This argument would be valid if it was still Lee of ENG 01 to ENG 05 we where speaking about. But Lee of WI 05 to WI 08 before he got injured clearly evolved from this phase.

[aussie]

Originally Posted by Clapo

Yeah do agree with this. Want him on the team, but he needs to get through a least one FC match first.

I third..

[aussie]

Will be interesting to see if Hodge gets a call up if Clarke isn't ready for the 1st test also.

[inbox24]

There is no way Australia should drop Lee or Clark, unless they want to slide further down the rankings. Siddle and Johnson are nowhere near ready despite 1 OK series helpful South African conditions. These guys lack the experience and consistency (particularly the latter) to succeed by themselves at international level. They are also missing some skillsets which they need to develop a bit at domestic level first. The bowling attack for the summer should be:

Lee
Hauritz
Clark
Hilfenhaus

With that you have a nice mix of accuracy, speed, swing and spin. This meshed with experience and consistency makes it still one of the better bowling attacks in the world. If one of these guys were to be injured, then bring in Johnson or Siddle (although personally I would look to others before turning to them), but not the other way around.

[pasag]

Massive blow if Clarke doesn't make it for the first Test. Pretty much our best batsmen out.

[Julian87]

Bollinger is one of the best three quicks at this point IMO.

[social]

Originally Posted by inbox24

There is no way Australia should drop Lee or Clark, unless they want to slide further down the rankings. Siddle and Johnson are nowhere near ready despite 1 OK series helpful South African conditions. These guys lack the experience and consistency (particularly the latter) to succeed by themselves at international level. They are also missing some skillsets which they need to develop a bit at domestic level first. The bowling attack for the summer should be:

Lee
Hauritz
Clark
Hilfenhaus

With that you have a nice mix of accuracy, speed, swing and spin. This meshed with experience and consistency makes it still one of the better bowling attacks in the world. If one of these guys were to be injured, then bring in Johnson or Siddle (although personally I would look to others before turning to them), but not the other way around.

Lee - massive punt
Hauritz - a must
Clark - will never play another test
Hilf - will be dropped before end of summer as there are many better bowlers

[Uppercut]

Originally Posted by Matt79

Uppercut, you're confusing Lee's ODI form, and possibly also one brief spell against the Lions with his test bowling. The two need to be looked at quite seperately because Lee's career record shows there's little correlation with him being a world beater with the white ball, and often only average with the red. In any case, I just can't see him bowling a full load in back to back tests.

Maybe, but when he's played no tests and plenty of ODIs for the past year it's all we can go by. I agree with what aussie says too, I think you're holding a completely different incarnation of the bowler from four or five years ago against the player he is now. The Lee bowling in ODIs (and against the Lions) has a lot more in common with the bowler of '07-08 than that of '08-'09. More to the point, I don't believe that any one of Midge Johnson, Ben Hilfenhaus and Peter Siddle are currently better bowlers.

Fair point on the fitness though. Would be good to see him get through a few four-day games first.

[Briony]

Originally Posted by pasag

Massive blow if Clarke doesn't make it for the first Test. Pretty much our best batsmen out.

It's only the Windies.

[inbox24]

Originally Posted by social

Lee - massive punt
Hauritz - a must
Clark - will never play another test
Hilf - will be dropped before end of summer as there are many better bowlers

Not picking them based on whether the selectors will or not. But I disagree with Hilfenhaus opinion. He's our only genuine swing bowler and quite consistent too. He may not luck as many as Johnson but will be more of a stable bowler the others can build around.

[Matt79]

Originally Posted by Burgey

Much as I admired Hilfy's efforts in England (and tbf they were such as to earn him first crack this summer), weren't his SA figures cod-ordinary too?

Yeah. I wasn't able to watch those matches, and am told he bowled better than the figures suggest.

[Uppercut]

Originally Posted by Matt79

Yeah. I wasn't able to watch those matches, and am told he bowled better than the figures suggest.

Ish. He was bowling too short and you wouldn't have expected him to pose much of a threat at all to the South African batting lineup the way he was bowling. But an average of 50-odd is probably a tad OTT.

Massive improvement in England though.

[Matt79]

Originally Posted by inbox24

There is no way Australia should drop Lee or Clark, unless they want to slide further down the rankings. Siddle and Johnson are nowhere near ready despite 1 OK series helpful South African conditions. These guys lack the experience and consistency (particularly the latter) to succeed by themselves at international level. They are also missing some skillsets which they need to develop a bit at domestic level first. The bowling attack for the summer should be:

Lee
Hauritz
Clark
Hilfenhaus

With that you have a nice mix of accuracy, speed, swing and spin. This meshed with experience and consistency makes it still one of the better bowling attacks in the world. If one of these guys were to be injured, then bring in Johnson or Siddle (although personally I would look to others before turning to them), but not the other way around.

sorry, that's outlandish. Johnson was the ICC cricketer of the year last year and dominated in Oz last year. He had a form slump in the Ashes but was clearly turning it around by the end of the series.

Agree he and Siddle have improvement still to accomplish, but they were two of the better performed quicks in the world last year and Siddle is visibly improving with each series under his belt. You want to drop them because they're inexperienced? As in don't ever bring in anyone new? How will they ever stop being too inexperienced if they can't get more games under their belt? If you're answer is that they go back to FC, that's a joke - the las thing they need is to go back to an environment where without bowling at their best they can dominate - they'll learn more playing better opponents. And this summer is a good time to let our future develop. It's debateable whether Clark is over the hill now, but in another six months he definitely will be getting close. What's the point of giving he and Lee a testimonial season against relatively weaker opposition and then being in the same boat in March.

Would love to know who the better options than Johnson, on top of Lee and Clark, that you reckon are out there.