Your All Time Teams for Every Format (After 1975)

[marc71178]

No McGrath in any format (except perhaps T20) = fail.

Think the more glaring fail is Proctor (last match in 1970)

 

[subshakerz]

Agree with this was also surprised not to see Warne in ODI side listed above far better than Murali in this format of the game

How so? Murali was his superior on pretty much every measure, particularly economy rate. Warne's 99 World Cup achievements aside, Murali does better than him in this form as well.

 

[Shri]

Tests

Matthew Hayden
Sunil Gavaskar
Viv Richards
Sachin Tendulkar
Brian Lara
Adam Gilchrist
Imran Khan
Richard Hadlee
Shane Warne
Muthiah Muralitharan
Glenn Mcgrath

ODIs

Sachin Tendulkar
Matthew Hayden
Viv Richards
Ricky Ponting
MS Dhoni
Michael Bevan
Imran Khan
Richard Hadlee
Wasim Akram
Curtly Ambrose
Mutthiah Muralitharan

T20

Matthew Hayden
Chris Gayle
Viv Richards
Ricky Ponting
MS Dhoni
Andrew Symonds
Imran Khan
Richard Hadlee
Shane Warne
Wasim Akram
Muthiah Muralitharan

 

[aussie]

No McGrath in any format (except perhaps T20) = fail.

Its all a matter of personal choice. But i'd say for the test team, Lillee/Marshall/Imran had all of McGrath's qualities but with more pace.

Think the more glaring fail is Proctor (last match in 1970)

I quite deliberating went againts the rules. Since Prcoter would have been playing test cricket in 1975 if it weren't for aparthied & he really was the best all-rounder in the world in 1975.

I reckon Pollock ahead of Klusener in the T20 lineup. Cairns @ 6, Flintoff @ 7 and Pollock @ 8 is a lot of batting and you get one of the most economical bowlers in history in the lineup as well. Klusener might be just a little too much batting.

I would say Klusener at his peak (batting) would be a must pick in a T20 XI tbh. If one could be dropped for Pollock it would have to be Cairns or Flintoff.

 

[Uppercut]

Its all a matter of personal choice. But i'd say for the test team, Lillee/Marshall/Imran had all of McGrath's qualities but with more pace.

Perhaps. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, though. McGrath took more wickets than any of those bowlers at a better average than all bar Marshall, and will, evidently, go down in history as the only fast bowler to excel during this decade. If Lillee and Imran were clones of McGrath only faster, I propose that the extra pace must have been a handicap.

 

[marc71178]

II quite deliberating went againts the rules. Since Prcoter would have been playing test cricket in 1975 if it weren't for aparthied & he really was the best all-rounder in the world in 1975.

That's all completely irrelevant - he didn't play in the timespan specified and there's no guarantee that he'd have been a Test success, let alone the best all rounder in 30+ years so he cannot be selected in such an eleven.

 

[zaremba]

Marc, there are no "guarantees" in any of this. There's no guarantee that Imran would be a success today. There's no guarantee that Hobbs would. There's no guarantee that Hick wouldn't have averaged 99.95 if he had played between the 20s and 40s. There's no guarantee that Viv Richards would have succeeded in T20 cricket.

Mike Procter was plainly, obviously, glaringly, indisputably, and without a smidgeon of an iota of a shadow of doubt one of the very best all-rounders in the world in 1975 who would have been absolutely outstanding as a Test player. There's no "guarantee" of this, but so what? He was very probably the best around at that time. Who else was there between the end of Sobers and the start of Botham? The fact that he didn't get to play Test cricket for 15 years is not his fault, and it shouldn't be held against him.

 

[aussie]

Well said Zaremba sir..

 

[aussie]

Perhaps. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, though. McGrath took more wickets than any of those bowlers at a better average than all bar Marshall, and will, evidently, go down in history as the only fast bowler to excel during this decade. If Lillee and Imran were clones of McGrath only faster, I propose that the extra pace must have been a handicap.

McGrath for anyone who loves stats is the perfect bowler. But for me those 3 bowlers including Hadlee based on what i've read (given i never saw any of them bowl live) i would definately put them ahead of Pigeon.

I certainly believe if Lillee/marshall/Hadlee/Imran had played in this 2000s era of flat decks & small boundaries they had the skills to be equally as effective as Pigeon.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Marc, there are no "guarantees" in any of this. There's no guarantee that Imran would be a success today. There's no guarantee that Hobbs would. There's no guarantee that Hick wouldn't have averaged 99.95 if he had played between the 20s and 40s. There's no guarantee that Viv Richards would have succeeded in T20 cricket.

Mike Procter was plainly, obviously, glaringly, indisputably, and without a smidgeon of an iota of a shadow of doubt one of the very best all-rounders in the world in 1975 who would have been absolutely outstanding as a Test player. There's no "guarantee" of this, but so what? He was very probably the best around at that time. Who else was there between the end of Sobers and the start of Botham? The fact that he didn't get to play Test cricket for 15 years is not his fault, and it shouldn't be held against him.

That is true, but it's still completely bonkers to pick Procter ahead of Ian Botham considering he was nearly 30 by 1975 and Botham's entire superior career fits within the time frame.

 

[aussie]

That is true, but it's still completely bonkers to pick Procter ahead of Ian Botham considering he was nearly 30 by 1975 and Botham's entire superior career fits within the time frame.

29 to be exact. He was born sept 15 1946.

Plus based on what i've read Procter was still at his peak in 1975 up until the end of the 1970s at least. When he took that famous LBW hatricks (which was on youtube once) it was around 1975. This little wikipedia writing sums up that 75/post 75 period of Procter fairly well i think:

He destroyed Worcestershire single handedly in 1977, scoring a century before lunch and taking 13 wickets for just 73 runs. He picked up another century before lunch in 1979, against Leicestershire, winning the Walter Lawrence Trophy for the season's fastest century, and then ripped through their batsmen with a hat-trick for good measure. Procter defied insurmountable odds in the very next game, against Yorkshire, by taking another hat-trick, all trapped leg-before. The potency of his muscular inswinging fast bowling can be seen by the fact that his feat of taking two hat-trick of LBWs is unique in the first class game. He captained them with distinction from 1977 to 1981 and was hugely popular with team mates and supporters alike. He was the Professional Cricketers' Association Player of the Year in 1970 and 1977 and won the Cricket Society Wetherall Award for the Leading All-Rounder in English First-Class Cricket in 1978.

As captain he led Gloucestershire to the Benson & Hedges Cup in 1977,

Picking Botham base on his 77-84 performance is definately legitimate. But i prefer Procter since i think potentially if he played test he could have been better. Given he did things FC cricket in then very strong county cricket & currie cup in SA that neither Botham or any of the other great all-rounders did.

 

[marc71178]

Plus based on what i've read Procter was still at his peak in 1975 up until the end of the 1970s at least.

Which means you're picking him on 4 years of hypothetical performances.

Picking Botham base on his 77-84 performance is definately legitimate. But i prefer Procter since i think potentially if he played test he could have been better. Given he did things FC cricket in then very strong county cricket & currie cup in SA that neither Botham or any of the other great all-rounders did.

Yes he did some good things, prior to 1975, but that's irrelevant to this criteria (a bit like him not actually playing Tests really)

 

[Lillian Thomson]

29 to be exact. He was born sept 15 1946.

Plus based on what i've read Procter was still at his peak in 1975 up until the end of the 1970s at least. When he took that famous LBW hatricks (which was on youtube once) it was around 1975. This little wikipedia writing sums up that 75/post 75 period of Procter fairly well i think:




Picking Botham base on his 77-84 performance is definately legitimate. But i prefer Procter since i think potentially if he played test he could have been better. Given he did things FC cricket in then very strong county cricket & currie cup in SA that neither Botham or any of the other great all-rounders did.

You don't consider 29 to be nearly 30?

I saw plenty of Procter in First Class Cricket and that LBW hattrick I saw live on TV. He was an inferior cricketer to Ian Botham however you care to look at it.

If you do go down that route for selection then Barry Richards should be included as he was a class above Gordon Greenidge.

 

[stephen]

McGrath for anyone who loves stats is the perfect bowler. But for me those 3 bowlers including Hadlee based on what i've read (given i never saw any of them bowl live) i would definately put them ahead of Pigeon.

I certainly believe if Lillee/marshall/Hadlee/Imran had played in this 2000s era of flat decks & small boundaries they had the skills to be equally as effective as Pigeon.

There is no doubt that Lillee/Marshall/Hadlee/Imran would all have been all time greats in this era. The thing is though that I don't think any of them would have averaged under 23 (well except maybe Marshall). I don't think we will realise how good McGrath actually was until there is more time passed.

McGrath was the most accurate bowler that any of us are likely to see ever in our lifetimes. He has no holes in his statistical record and performed against every nation in every nation. What's more he did it in an era where literally a dozen batsmen around the world averaged over 50, pitches were at their flattest in decades and roped in boundaries became commonplace.

 

[Ikki]

Tests

Matthew Hayden
Sunil Gavaskar
Viv Richards
Ricky Ponting
Brian Lara
Sachin Tendulkar
Adam Gilchrist
Malcolm Marshall
Shane Warne
Dennis Lillee
Glenn Mcgrath

ODIs

Sachin Tendulkar
Adam Gilchrist
Viv Richards
Ricky Ponting
Kevin Pietersen
Michael Hussey
Michael Bevan
Wasim Akram
Shane Warne
Joel Garner
Glenn McGrath

 

[Ikki]

There is no doubt that Lillee/Marshall/Hadlee/Imran would all have been all time greats in this era. The thing is though that I don't think any of them would have averaged under 23 (well except maybe Marshall). I don't think we will realise how good McGrath actually was until there is more time passed.

McGrath was the most accurate bowler that any of us are likely to see ever in our lifetimes. He has no holes in his statistical record and performed against every nation in every nation. What's more he did it in an era where literally a dozen batsmen around the world averaged over 50, pitches were at their flattest in decades and roped in boundaries became commonplace.

This is a bit of a myth. His record has about as many holes as does Donald or Lillee or many others. Just to give you an idea, he wasn't so flash against S.Africa. Maybe worse than how Donald was against Australia. His record at home to NZ isn't flash either. I picked him over some others almost purely on his longevity, but these guys are all essentially as good as each other.

 

[aussie]

You don't consider 29 to be nearly 30.

I saw plenty of Procter in First Class Cricket and that LBW hattrick I saw live on TV. He was an inferior cricketer to Ian Botham however you care to look at it..

Given your are one of the elders around you i very much respect that view. But i have heard other older folks put Procter over Botham.

Plus looking at the LBW hattrick, i dont think i ever saw any highlights of Botham's bowling performance at his peak that was as lethal.

If you do go down that route for selection then Barry Richards should be included as he was a class above Gordon Greenidge.

I definately wanted to. But i'd didn't want to pick two such players based on hypotetical performances, since it would have double controversey.

 

[Uppercut]

McGrath for anyone who loves stats is the perfect bowler. But for me those 3 bowlers including Hadlee based on what i've read (given i never saw any of them bowl live) i would definately put them ahead of Pigeon.

It's not so much the stats that I love as the masses and masses and masses of wickets for ****-all runs.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Given your are one of the elders around you i very much respect that view. But i have heard other older folks put Procter over Botham.

Just out of curiousity, how old do you think I am?

 

[aussie]

just out of curiousity, how old do you think i am?

30+