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Thread: Ponting better than Sachin : Ian Chappell

  1. #151
    R_D
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    Quote Originally Posted by Migara View Post
    Why you always keep forgetting Indian bowling in India is one of the best?
    Yeah very valid point... Indian spinners at home are very formidable.

  2. #152
    International Coach Ikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Migara View Post
    Why you always keep forgetting Indian bowling in India is one of the best?
    I am not forgetting it; Sachin never faced Indian bowlers in India.
    ★★★★★

  3. #153
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    He did in the IPL

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  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    I am not forgetting it; Sachin never faced Indian bowlers in India.
    Tendulkar averages above 90 when he turns up to play for his domestic team, Mumbai.


  5. #155
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Uppercut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox View Post
    Even though it's not all that relevant to the argument, I was actually quite surprised by that statistic, and I think that is what Uppercut alluded to. Everyone associates Ponting with being vulnerable to the full ball early and playing across his pad, and I remember him going out a fair bit that way.
    Yeah, that's why I found it interesting. It's often said- you could call it conventional wisdom- that Ponting is vulnerable early on to the full ball on his pads as his exaggerated front-foot movement causes him to overbalance. It seemed that the international cricketing community had agreed, that was the place to bowl at Ponting. But as far as I'm concerned, the figures show it was just an illusion. Maybe that's a reason why he was so successful- bowlers repeatedly bowling to his strengths, mistaking them for weaknesses.

    During the Ashes, Michael Holding told an anecdote about how Ponting had hit a big one against the West Indies and he'd gone into their dressing room afterwards to tell them they had Ponting all wrong- the place to bowl to him was outside off stump at all times. Forcing him to play isn't a concern- Ponting will generally play of his own accord- and he gets out caught behind the wicket on the off-side much more often than he gets out lbw. Ever since, he'd had a somewhat mediocre run of scores against the West Indies. England seemed to be listening, as Stuart Broad successfully executed the plan in the second innings of the next match at Lord's.

    For use in a "Ponting vs. Tendulkar vs. Lara" debate, it's a useless statistic. Contrary to what those more interested in the technical side of batting than myself will say, getting out repeatedly in the same way is no worse than getting out in a thrilling variety of different ways. But it's still very interesting to know.
    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    The Filth have comfortably the better bowling. But the Gash have the batting. Might be quite good to watch.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pratters View Post
    Tendulkar averages above 90 when he turns up to play for his domestic team, Mumbai.
    I am sure Ikki meant never facing Indian Test bowlers in Tests in India.If that's what he meant then great job misinterperating his post.
    Ikki is that what you meant?

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    International Vice-Captain bagapath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    But it's still very interesting to know.

    TAWTA. very interesting post uppercut

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0RI0N View Post
    I am sure Ikki meant never facing Indian Test bowlers in Tests in India.If that's what he meant then great job misinterperating his post.
    Ikki is that what you meant?
    I am just joking around.

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    Uppercut, you are a fine young man.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    Yeah, that's why I found it interesting. It's often said- you could call it conventional wisdom- that Ponting is vulnerable early on to the full ball on his pads as his exaggerated front-foot movement causes him to overbalance. It seemed that the international cricketing community had agreed, that was the place to bowl at Ponting. But as far as I'm concerned, the figures show it was just an illusion. Maybe that's a reason why he was so successful- bowlers repeatedly bowling to his strengths, mistaking them for weaknesses.

    During the Ashes, Michael Holding told an anecdote about how Ponting had hit a big one against the West Indies and he'd gone into their dressing room afterwards to tell them they had Ponting all wrong- the place to bowl to him was outside off stump at all times. Forcing him to play isn't a concern- Ponting will generally play of his own accord- and he gets out caught behind the wicket on the off-side much more often than he gets out lbw. Ever since, he'd had a somewhat mediocre run of scores against the West Indies. England seemed to be listening, as Stuart Broad successfully executed the plan in the second innings of the next match at Lord's.

    For use in a "Ponting vs. Tendulkar vs. Lara" debate, it's a useless statistic. Contrary to what those more interested in the technical side of batting than myself will say, getting out repeatedly in the same way is no worse than getting out in a thrilling variety of different ways. But it's still very interesting to know.
    Every word of this. Great post.

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  11. #161
    International Vice-Captain bagapath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0RI0N View Post
    I am sure Ikki meant never facing Indian Test bowlers in Tests in India.If that's what he meant then great job misinterperating his post.
    Ikki is that what you meant?
    i thought jono meant it in a funny way. at least that is how i would interpret the smiley!

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0RI0N View Post
    I am sure Ikki meant never facing Indian Test bowlers in Tests in India.If that's what he meant then great job misinterperating his post.
    Ikki is that what you meant?
    Yes, I thought that would have been fairly obvious.
    Last edited by Ikki; 27-10-2009 at 09:54 AM.

  13. #163
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    Just winding Pratters up.

    Lulz no harm no foul.

  14. #164
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    Yeah, that's why I found it interesting. It's often said- you could call it conventional wisdom- that Ponting is vulnerable early on to the full ball on his pads as his exaggerated front-foot movement causes him to overbalance. It seemed that the international cricketing community had agreed, that was the place to bowl at Ponting. But as far as I'm concerned, the figures show it was just an illusion. Maybe that's a reason why he was so successful- bowlers repeatedly bowling to his strengths, mistaking them for weaknesses.

    During the Ashes, Michael Holding told an anecdote about how Ponting had hit a big one against the West Indies and he'd gone into their dressing room afterwards to tell them they had Ponting all wrong- the place to bowl to him was outside off stump at all times. Forcing him to play isn't a concern- Ponting will generally play of his own accord- and he gets out caught behind the wicket on the off-side much more often than he gets out lbw. Ever since, he'd had a somewhat mediocre run of scores against the West Indies. England seemed to be listening, as Stuart Broad successfully executed the plan in the second innings of the next match at Lord's.

    For use in a "Ponting vs. Tendulkar vs. Lara" debate, it's a useless statistic. Contrary to what those more interested in the technical side of batting than myself will say, getting out repeatedly in the same way is no worse than getting out in a thrilling variety of different ways. But it's still very interesting to know.
    Like several this post is moreorless exactly my thoughts.

    "Maybe that's a reason why he was so successful- bowlers repeatedly bowling to his strengths, mistaking them for weaknesses." can be applied to a huge number of batsmen. In the case of this particular weakness-which-is-actually-a-strength, it applies massively to Ponting and did likewise to Inzamam-ul-Haq all career.

    There've been all sorts of batsmen who the short delivery has been the applicable delivery. Stephen Waugh being possibly the best example. It took England 8 years to work it out (and even when they did it didn't always do the trick), but Michael Atherton tells a similar story of how in the 1997 Ashes he finally told the bowlers in no uncertain terms that they had to attack him full and straight early on, not bowl short.
    Last edited by Richard; 27-10-2009 at 10:18 AM.
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  15. #165
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagapath View Post
    the australia that had to face lance gibbs was not the one that faced harbhajan singh. this is a much more successful team;.
    Yea, but you can carry it back to Jim Laker too, strong AUS team being troubled by quality off-spin, Patel in 59/60. Its a historical weakness that AUS have only countered in 69/70 & 2004 with wins in SRI & IND.

    Quote Originally Posted by bagapath View Post
    the best in the world that beat everyone everywhere except on the said occasions in discussion. also this team went on to win in sri lanka against murali 3-0. so the "traditional weakness against spin" argument doesnt hold good for me.
    it was a traditional weakness, that during the dominant period of WI 95 to Ashes 06/07 - AUS only weakness was againts spin in helpul conditions. AUS won in 2004 in SRI & IND thanks to methodical planning from past mistakes in IND 98 & 01 & SRI 99.

    Quote Originally Posted by bagapath View Post
    i do beleive australia could have won the 2001 series if ponting had earned his match fees by scoring decent runs. the thrid test was so close that all aus needed was probably 20 odd runs.
    Ha come on man. In 2001 the only AUS batsman who was comfortable againts the spin was Hayden - everyone else was foxed (maybe Steve Waugh also stood up to a level as well). AUS didn't deserve to win since they had not eradicated their weakness againts spin in 01, lets not forget also that AUS lost in SRI 99 as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by bagapath View Post
    similarly he should have contibuted in the 2004 mumbai test to avoid defeat; he couldn't.
    On a EXTREMELY bowler friendly deck. The only time the batsmen where on top in the game was when VVS/Tendy where batting for a period in INDs second innings. AUS lost that game due to poor batting in the second innings along with a touch of the old dead-rubber syndrome. Ponting had nothing to do with that loss.



    Quote Originally Posted by bagapath View Post
    ricky's repeated letdowns with the bat and australia's failed indian campaigns are very much connected.
    Clearly not.

    Quote Originally Posted by bagapath View Post
    you will see that his record in england is also not as solid as his record elsewhere. that explains two back to back ashes losses as well. any batsman who averages 5+ points more at home than away, whether it is ricky or javed, despite being the mainstay of the team, should be held responsible for letting the team down in overseas defeats.
    Haa you gone too far now, trying to hard to find faults. AUS losing back to back Ashes clearly had nothing to do with Ponting's batting (his captaincy maybe).

    In 2005 it was because the entire batting was exposed to quality swing bowler.

    In 2009 it was due to inconsistent performances & poor selections by the selectors.

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