• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Ferguson out for 6-12 months

four_or_six

Cricketer Of The Year
I don't see how you can say it's 'probably good in the long run'. The bloke's only 24 and he's having a second knee ligament operation! And you can't argue with what he's done so far in ODIs, he's been very good indeed. Who's to say he wouldn't have been decent if required in tests too?
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I don't see how you can say it's 'probably good in the long run'. The bloke's only 24 and he's having a second knee ligament operation! And you can't argue with what he's done so far in ODIs, he's been very good indeed. Who's to say he wouldn't have been decent if required in tests too?
He could quite conceivably have been, he just doesn't deserve the chance, while others deserve it far more.

What I mean, obviously, is not that this is best in the interests of Ferguson (though there is the chance it might be - he could have played Tests sometime in the next 12 months and proven not up to it) but that it's in the best interests of Australia having the best available team and something closer to justice being done for all cricketers rather than just one in the country.
 

four_or_six

Cricketer Of The Year
He could quite conceivably have been, he just doesn't deserve the chance, while others deserve it far more.

What I mean, obviously, is not that this is best in the interests of Ferguson (though there is the chance it might be - he could have played Tests sometime in the next 12 months and proven not up to it) but that it's in the best interests of Australia having the best available team and something closer to justice being done for all cricketers rather than just one in the country.
As far as the best interests of Australia, I would have thought that would be having as many good players available as possible, and having their young talents playing shield cricket rather than spending a year in rehab.

And I know you're not a fan of picking young players, but I daresay if he would have got picked it would have been off the back of some good performances. I get the impression the Australian selectors want to bring in some younger batsmen so that they don't have everyone in their 30s. I don't know that there's loads of young middle order players ahead of him. Cameron White is the one I can think of off the top of my head.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
As far as the best interests of Australia, I would have thought that would be having as many good players available as possible, and having their young talents playing shield cricket rather than spending a year in rehab.

And I know you're not a fan of picking young players, but I daresay if he would have got picked it would have been off the back of some good performances. I get the impression the Australian selectors want to bring in some younger batsmen so that they don't have everyone in their 30s.
Bad idea. In Test cricket you do best by picking your best team. As and when that best team includes players in their 20s, then pick them. Do not use age as a criteria - if the best players are all in their 30s, then they should continue to be picked for as long as they remain the best players - when they cease to be the best players then replacements should be brought in, and those replacements should once again be the best players, whether they are in their 20s or 30s.

I am not "not a fan of picking young players", merely "allowing age to come into consideration as a selection criteria". Quality should be the only consideration, IMO.

If the selectorial hand is forced to give more consideration to quality by a moderate-quality young player (that's all Ferguson is - SO FAR!!!!!!!!!!) being ruled-out for a lengthy span, then that's good for the team in my book.
 
Last edited:

four_or_six

Cricketer Of The Year
Bad idea. In Test cricket you do best by picking your best team. As and when that best team includes players in their 20s, then pick them. Do not use age as a criteria - if the best players are all in their 30s, then they should continue to be picked for as long as they remain the best players - when they cease to be the best players then replacements should be brought in, and those replacements should once again be the best players, whether they are in their 20s or 30s.

I am not "not a fan of picking young players", merely "allowing age to come into consideration as a selection criteria". Quality should be the only consideration, IMO.

If the selectorial hand is forced to give more consideration to quality by a moderate-quality young player (that's all Ferguson is - SO FAR!!!!!!!!!!) being ruled-out for a lengthy span, then that's good for the team in my book.
I'm a believer in experience being useful in a batting line-up, and that the youngsters can benefit in the long run by playing with the more experienced players.

And if Ferguson is a moderate-quality young player, I wish we had one of those!
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I'm a believer in experience being useful in a batting line-up, and that the youngsters can benefit in the long run by playing with the more experienced players.
I'm a believer that all they need to do is mingle, chat and absorb - inexperienced cricketers' names do not have to share a place on a scoresheet with experienced ones in order for experiences to be passed-on.
And if Ferguson is a moderate-quality young player, I wish we had one of those!
That isn't unusual. In far more cases than not since WW1 England would've killed for some of Australia's decent-but-far-from-outstanding players.

Mind, I'd still take Pietersen, Collingwood and Prior ahead of him as things currently stand; I wait to see whether he or Bell will turn-out better; and there's Trott who's just had one of the best England debuts for a long, long time.
 
Last edited:

four_or_six

Cricketer Of The Year
I'm a believer that all they need to do is mingle, chat and absorb - inexperienced cricketers' names do not have to share a place on a scoresheet with experienced ones in order for experiences to be passed-on.

That isn't unusual. In far more cases than not since WW1 England would've killed for some of Australia's decent-but-far-from-outstanding players.

Mind, I'd still take Pietersen, Collingwood and Prior ahead of him as things currently stand; I wait to see whether he or Bell will turn-out better; and there's Trott who's just had one of the best England debuts for a long, long time.
From my (admittedly limited) experience, you learn a lot actually on the field when you're batting with someone who is experienced, or they are captaining when you are playing.

And of course I would also take Pietersen and Collingwood too, but they're hardly young up and coming players. Saying you'd take Pietersen over Ferguson is about as controversial as saying you'd take you'd take Hussey over Bopara. :p
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
From my (admittedly limited) experience, you learn a lot actually on the field when you're batting with someone who is experienced, or they are captaining when you are playing.
Can't say there's ever been substantial evidence to suggest it to me (I find a quiet, thought-out chat away from the intensity of a game is far superior where learning is concerned), but we're about as likely to change each others' viewpoints on the matter as a cod is to swin to the Moon, so we'd probably best ATD. :)
And of course I would also take Pietersen and Collingwood too, but they're hardly young up and coming players. Saying you'd take Pietersen over Ferguson is about as controversial as saying you'd take you'd take Hussey over Bopara. :p
Obviously Ferguson is a fair way ahead of, say, Bopara or Morgan, despite both actually possessing fairly superior career records to him. Like I said, it's generally the way - as a general rule (though clearly not without plenty of exceptions), Australian > English when all is equal.
 
Last edited:

four_or_six

Cricketer Of The Year
Can't say there's ever been substantial evidence to suggest it to me (I find a quiet, thought-out chat away from the intensity of a game is far superior where learning is concerned), but we're about as likely to change each others' viewpoints on the matter as a cod is to swin to the Moon, so we'd probably best ATD. :)
Indeed. :) I'm just in an argumentative mood this evening.

Though, y'know, they did just find evidence of water... ;)

Obviously Ferguson is a fair way ahead of, say, Bopara or Morgan, despite both actually possessing fairly superior career records to him. Like I said, it's generally the way - by-and-large, Australian > English when all is equal.
:-O:-O:-O Shocking.
 

Uppercut

Request Your Custom Title Now!
This sucks, Ferguson was awesome. In ODIs anyway. Wouldn't pick him for tests personally but wouldn't bleat if he was.
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
Didn't he only get what seemed like a pretty one-off-reward-for-short-term-excellence fill-in position for a couple of games and end-up doing so well that he got preferred to others (such as Symonds)?
Symonds was a) recovering from injury and b) undergoing disciplinary proceedings for comments made on radio about Brendon McCullum when Ferguson made his debut, so no, Symonds wasn't an option.

Around the time of the ODI series against South Africa and New Zealand Australia had been weakened significantly in their batting - Marsh was injured, as was Watson, Gilchrist retired after the India series, Hayden had retired - there was plenty of space available in the line up for a newcomer. Why not give a chance to a young player who at the time of his selection was very much in form domestically?
 

andyc

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Symonds was a) recovering from injury and b) undergoing disciplinary proceedings for comments made on radio about Brendon McCullum when Ferguson made his debut, so no, Symonds wasn't an option.

Around the time of the ODI series against South Africa and New Zealand Australia had been weakened significantly in their batting - Marsh was injured, as was Watson, Gilchrist retired after the India series, Hayden had retired - there was plenty of space available in the line up for a newcomer. Why not give a chance to a young player who at the time of his selection was very much in form domestically?
Indeed. And I don't see why him taking advantage of the elevation and doing well means that it was underserved.
 

Jakester1288

International Regular
Not a big loss for Australia, SA will miss him. With this injury, he will struggle to make it back into the Australian team when he is fit again. Hopefully he is right by the end of this summer, so he can have an off season training.

From PC.
 

andyc

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Not a big loss for Australia, SA will miss him. With this injury, he will struggle to make it back into the Australian team when he is fit again. Hopefully he is right by the end of this summer, so he can have an off season training.

From PC.
Can't see how it isn't a big loss for Australia. He's performed really well in the ODI squad and has been absolutely key in getting Australia to a credible total in a fair few games. Having him down the order is nice security, and the guy's only 24. I'd definitely say it's quite a big loss for the one day team.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Indeed. And I don't see why him taking advantage of the elevation and doing well means that it was underserved.
:huh: How on Earth did you deduce that from anything I've said so far? I said Ferguson deserves full credit for taking the chances offered him, but that the chances weren't really earned.

Adam Voges, to name just one, should have played before he did.
 

Top