*Official* Australia in India - ODIs

[stephen]

Should've gotten the Nobel Peace Prize too.

Well it's not like you have to have any real achievements to get one these days so why not.

 

[NUFAN]

yeah.. but I was trying to convey that the selectors may not be sold on his batting yet... esp. as an international number 7. My bad that I ended up making it look as if I was sprouting out inconsistent theories..

Yeah you are right his batting isn't good enough to be considered an all rounder. If you were playing on a turner and you had Johnson, Krejza, Lee, Hauritz from numbers 7 to 10 (Lee probably would bat above Krejza), that's an extremely handy lower order.

Has anyone done an analysis on when Watson takes his ODI wickets as in lower order wickets vs top order? I would be interested to see.

 

[Uppercut]

Yeah you are right his batting isn't good enough to be considered an all rounder. If you were playing on a turner and you had Johnson, Krejza, Lee, Hauritz from numbers 7 to 10 (Lee probably would bat above Krejza), that's an extremely handy lower order.

Has anyone done an analysis on when Watson takes his ODI wickets as in lower order wickets vs top order? I would be interested to see.

It's all on howstat- HowSTAT! Wickets by Batting Order Graph (ODI)

I'd be wary of drawing any conclusions from it. Bowlers who bowl a lot at the death tend to have heavy concentrations of tail-end wickets as opposed to those who bowl at the start/during the middle overs.

 

[NUFAN]

It's all on howstat- HowSTAT! Wickets by Batting Order Graph (ODI)

I'd be wary of drawing any conclusions from it. Bowlers who bowl a lot at the death tend to have heavy concentrations of tail-end wickets as opposed to those who bowl at the start/during the middle overs.

Cheers for that. Definitely building up a decent record, he'd want to improve against South Africa though with both bat and ball!

 

[Furball]

Thats just stats man. Ferguson can't do what White did in the 5th ODI vs IND. If my memory is correct also i don't think i've even seen Ferguson hit a 6 yet.

Ferguson in the last few months with all the injuries was sort of doing Hussey's role @ 6. So with Hussey now back in form Ferguson aint that needed IMO. White as said before is basically brings back that power play to the middle order, now that Symonds is gone.

Up there with your "Mustard scores his runs faster than Davies" nonsense.

 

[Faisal1985]

Well deserved series win for Aussies. But Sachin really spiced it up...........a typical desi batsman's thrashing of gora bowlers.......memorable innings...

 

[aussie]

Up there with your "Mustard scores his runs faster than Davies" nonsense.

Ha why was that nonsense because you couldn't find a good counter argument?.

Secondly i'd like to hear your reasoning to how Ferguson would be suited to batting @ 6, than White in the AUS ODI XI?.

 

[andyc]

Ha why was that nonsense because you couldn't find a good counter argument?.

IIRC, it was probably because it was shown that he had a considerably higher SR in both T20s and List-A games. Pretty irrefutable argument if you ask me, tbh.

 

[four_or_six]

Good to see Watto take Yuvraj's place as no.2 all-rounder in ODIs thanks to this series. I do prefer it when the all-rounders on there have more of a balance of their two skills contributing to their rankings.

 

[aussie]

IIRC, it was probably because it was shown that he had a considerably higher SR in both T20s and List-A games. Pretty irrefutable argument if you ask me, tbh.

The stats can hardly be taken as face value when it comes to List A cricket in England.

 

[Jarquis]

The stats can hardly be taken as face value when it comes to List A cricket in England.

Really don't understand this. If one was playing in England and the other in SA it may have some merit that scoring at 150 in England is as impressive as scoring at 120 in SA (just an example) but the fact they play in the same competitions against the same attacks means their stats will be inflated by the exact same amount.
I simply don't understand how you can say that Player B scores quicker than Player A when it's a fact that Player A scores at more runs a ball than Player B.
How?

 

[andyc]

Really don't understand this. If one was playing in England and the other in SA it may have some merit that scoring at 150 in England is as impressive as scoring at 120 in SA (just an example) but the fact they play in the same competitions against the same attacks means their stats will be inflated by the exact same amount.
I simply don't understand how you can say that Player B scores quicker than Player A when it's a fact that Player A scores at more runs a ball than Player B.
How?

This. It's like saying that Ponting averages more than Bradman. It just isn't true.

 

[Notorious1]

Well deserved series win for Aussies. But Sachin really spiced it up...........a typical desi batsman's thrashing of gora bowlers.......memorable innings...

Sachin just played one good innings in the whole series, but it was worth watching.

 

[Furball]

Ha why was that nonsense because you couldn't find a good counter argument?.

Secondly i'd like to hear your reasoning to how Ferguson would be suited to batting @ 6, than White in the AUS ODI XI?.

Because any time I've seen White, he looks like the sort of batsman who needs time to build an innings before hitting out. A bit like Flintoff actually. So I'd rather have White in at 4, so that he's better set to hit out, than have him come in at 6 and ask him to hit from ball one.

And the "Mustard scores his runs faster than Davies" was nonsense because it was nonsense. Davies struck at about 116, Mustard at about 90 last season. While statistics aren't the be all and end all when it comes to judging players (eg the fact that Thilan Samaraweera averages higher than Aravinda da Silva doesn't necessarily make him the better batsman), statistics can objectively measure things like strike rate and average. You cannot look at what the statistics tell you and argue the opposite.

 

[aussie]

Because any time I've seen White, he looks like the sort of batsman who needs time to build an innings before hitting out. A bit like Flintoff actually. So I'd rather have White in at 4, so that he's better set to hit out, than have him come in at 6 and ask him to hit from ball one.

Well not really, watch back the 5th ODI vs IND or even some of his early ODIs or even some of his innings for Somerset when he was overe here a few years back. He clearly smoke it from ball one.

What White has shown in the last few months is that CAN build an innings. Since i dont think too many people based on his past international performances, thought he was good enough to bat between 3-5 in the AUS ODI middle-order.

And the "Mustard scores his runs faster than Davies" was nonsense because it was nonsense. Davies struck at about 116, Mustard at about 90 last season. While statistics aren't the be all and end all when it comes to judging players (eg the fact that Thilan Samaraweera averages higher than Aravinda da Silva doesn't necessarily make him the better batsman), statistics can objectively measure things like strike rate and average. You cannot look at what the statistics tell you and argue the opposite.

Yea the same domestic season where James Foster who clearly is not hitter & struggled to get the ball of the square in T20 WC had a SR of 91 & at one point was had SR of over 120 when last had this discussion. So in ENG as you said it clearly isn't the be it & end all for.

Has i said before regardless of stats based on what i've seen Mustard agaitns international attacks is more capable of being maintaining a high SR than Davies if opening the batting. But of course Mustard aint international quality & Davies has the potential to be.

 

[Jarquis]

Really don't understand this. If one was playing in England and the other in SA it may have some merit that scoring at 150 in England is as impressive as scoring at 120 in SA (just an example) but the fact they play in the same competitions against the same attacks means their stats will be inflated by the exact same amount.
I simply don't understand how you can say that Player B scores quicker than Player A when it's a fact that Player A scores at more runs a ball than Player B.
How?

Hey aussie, answer please?

 

[aussie]

Really don't understand this. If one was playing in England and the other in SA it may have some merit that scoring at 150 in England is as impressive as scoring at 120 in SA (just an example) but the fact they play in the same competitions against the same attacks means their stats will be inflated by the exact same amount.

You would expect that but in our List A cricket is hardly ever that case. Given the standard of attacks is so poor some players could dominate in List A & T20 cricket & look totally out of depth in international cricket. While another player may not be so dominant but he may just have that steel to adapt to international cricket. A perfect example over the past decade are Ali Brown, Loye, Irani (the domestic bully) & Paul Collingwood, Swann, Shah (the player who has shown the steel to adapt to internatonal cricket).

I simply don't understand how you can say that Player B scores quicker than Player A when it's a fact that Player A scores at more runs a ball than Player B.
How?

As i said above - standard of bowling attack that they would have to face in domestic cricket. Look at Mascarenhas in list A cricket, he is basically a Flintoff for Hampshire. But outside that ODI in 07 when he smoked Yuvraj for 30 in a over (or close that), he has never been able to replicate that in international cricket.

We have seen enough scenario's like this for ENG ODI team over the 15 years. The selectors when picking players although you have to use stats a guide, really should by now realise given the poor standard of bowling - clearly not all top performances CAN b e taken on face value. Sometimes you got to go for some natural talent you may see in the odd innings - but ATS ENG hardly have much of that, thus we unfortunately have to poach from SA & Ireland - our cupboard is very bare.

 

[Furball]

You would expect that but in our List A cricket is hardly ever that case. Given the standard of attacks is so poor some players could dominate in List A & T20 cricket & look totally out of depth in international cricket. While another player may not be so dominant but he may just have that steel to adapt to international cricket. A perfect example over the past decade are Ali Brown, Loye, Irani (the domestic bully) & Paul Collingwood, Swann, Shah (the player who has shown the steel to adapt to internatonal cricket).

That wasn't the point.

You cannot argue something that is subjectively shown to be false by the statistics.

 

[aussie]

That wasn't the point.

You cannot argue something that is subjectively shown to be false by the statistics.

which is?

 

[Furball]

which is?

That Mustard scores his runs quicker than Davies.