Golden Matchups

[G.I.Joe]

A riled up Allan Donald could testify to Dravid's ability against quality pace, all right. As Bagapath mentions, Dravid wasn't even at his peak at the time.

[Hurricane]

I am not sure how fast Hadlee was. I met Larry Gomes once and I asked him what it was like to face Hadlee
"He was fast. Bob Willis Fast. Lillee Fast. Just Fast"
So that statement would put him up there.
But when I was watching a youtube clip that someone posted here on a worlds fastest bowling contest Hadlee came last and clocked 129kms - Jeff Thomson won with 147 kms. Now maybe it was a slow pitch because I have heard that Thomson could bowl 160kms when he really got going.
But that evidence would suggest that Hadlee wasn't that quick.

[Xuhaib]

Originally Posted by G.I.Joe

A riled up Allan Donald could testify to Dravid's ability against quality pace, all right. As Bagapath mentions, Dravid wasn't even at his peak at the time.

Waqar at his peak was probably a more potent force then AD as I said this woyld have been a dream match up.

[bagapath]

Originally Posted by Xuhaib

Waqar at his peak was probably a more potent force then AD as I said this woyld have been a dream match up.

this actually happened once in mid 90s in toronto. and it definitely was fun to watch. i remember rahul scoring 15+ runs in a waqar over including a top edged pull for six.

also sachin vs waqar was as good as any match up you will see in cricket. they had some memorable encounters in the same one-day series. waqar was denied four lbw shouts of cosequetive balls to sachin of which at least one looked good enough to be given out . when he came back for the second spell sachin hit his first ball over square leg for a six. cricket is a very cruel game.

somehow wasim (a greater bowler than waqar by mile) did not trouble tendulkar as much as his fellow conspirator or even akhthar (who is a distant fifth among great pak fast bowlers). i wish india and pak played tests between 94 and 97 when wasim was still close to his best and sachin too was reaching his peak. a technically correct attacking batsman facing a versatile fast bowler would surely have been one contest made in heaven.

I wonder if anyone had seen greg chappell facing upto richard hadlee. would have been cricket at its best for sure.

[Xuhaib]

Originally Posted by bagapath

this actually happened once in mid 90s in toronto. and it definitely was fun to watch. i remember rahul scoring 15+ runs in a waqar over including a top edged pull for six.

also sachin vs waqar was as good as any match up you will see in cricket. they had some memorable encounters in the same one-day series. waqar was denied four lbw shouts of cosequetive balls to sachin of which at least one looked good enough to be given out . when he came back for the second spell sachin hit his first ball over square leg for a six. cricket is a very cruel game.

somehow wasim (a greater bowler than waqar by mile) did not trouble tendulkar as much as his fellow conspirator or even akhthar (who is a distant fifth among great pak fast bowlers). i wish india and pak played tests between 94 and 97 when wasim was still close to his best and sachin too was reaching his peak. a technically correct attacking batsman facing a versatile fast bowler would surely have been one contest made in heaven.

I wonder if anyone had seen greg chappell facing upto richard hadlee. would have been cricket at its best for sure.

Agree with all your post apart from this. I respect your cricket knowledge but I doubt you saw W-W bowling in tandem as much as I did during tests period 90-96 and from what I remember Waqar more often then not outperformed Wasim especially against the top order.

[Xuhaib]

Some fascinating read about Waqar:

Whilst most of us know the story about Waqar being spotted by Imran Khan on tv whilst playing against Delhi at the Qaddaffi stadium, most of us dont know about the struggles that Waqar faced early in his cricketing career.

Waqar was regarded in the Multan district not as Right Arm Fast, but as Right arm all over the place. Meaning that he was fast, wayward and very expensive. None of the local keepers could stop his deliveries because he was so erratic and fast. On the local concrete wickets, his deliveries would usually fly over the keepers head for byes and he was regarded as a risk to have in your bowling lineup.

Waqar and the local express merchant Nadeem Iqbal would be the talk of the town as to who was the quickest, with Waqar idolising Nadeem. Whilst Nadeem and Waqar were close competitors when it came to speed, it was Nadeem who was clear leader when it came to taking wickets and accuracy in the Multan district cricket competitions.

Waqar was discarded by his local team in Burewala and was left in a position where he was only given a chance by the Vehari team. According to Zahid, Waqar wanting to seize that chance would cycle 25-30 km in the Multan heat to play for Vehari, before playing the match and then cycling the same distance back to his home straight after the match ended.

When people say Waqar was a natural athlete, now we know one of the reasons why he was such a fit cricketer. All that cycling in that intense heat paid off in the end didnt it?

Source-Pakpassion.net

[bagapath]

nice one...

during tests period 90-96 and from what I remember Waqar more often then not outperformed Wasim especially against the top order

you are right, i did not see enough test cricket involving these two in that period. statistically akram seems to have outperformed waqar in the 38 tests they played together then. but, as you have said, waqar might have snared more top order wickets. i dont know.

Wasim Akram 1990-1996 38 68 1505.5 344 3895 198 7/119 11/160 19.67 2.58 45.6 15 3
Waqar Younis 1990-1996 38 68 1289.4 247 4172 190 7/86 11/119 21.95 3.23 40.7 15 2

EDIT: a cursory look at the batsmen dismissed by them in the given period reveals that waqar did indeed dismiss more quality batsmen than wasim whose share of late order victims seems larger.

[subshakerz]

Originally Posted by Xuhaib

Agree with all your post apart from this. I respect your cricket knowledge but I doubt you saw W-W bowling in tandem as much as I did during tests period 90-96 and from what I remember Waqar more often then not outperformed Wasim especially against the top order.

Two things. First, Waqar's peak was between 90-94, in 1995 he suffered huge back problems that kept him out of the side for most the year and when he came back he had lost around 10mphs in pace and his form dwindled. I recall vivdly watching the 1996 series against England and wondering how much more lethal Waqar would have been at full pacer. I also remember there was a time in 1997 when the selectors were considering kicking him from the side. Of course, he fought back and did well but wasn't near the force he once was.

Second, over the course of their careers, there is little doubt that Wasim was the better bowler. They performed near the same level against everyone except the two best batting sides, India and Australia, where Akram was notably better. And the vast majority of batsmen who played both favor Wasim, even in Waqar's peak, simply because Wasim was a more versatile bowler and harder to dominate.

[zaremba]

Originally Posted by subshakerz

I recall vivdly watching the 1996 series against England and wondering how much more lethal Waqar would have been at full pace.

Yep I have precisely the same memory. By comparison with the lightning-quick proposition he had been around 1990, his pace was much reduced in 1996. Still a good bowler, but nothing like what he had been.

I also agree that over the course of their careers Wasim was the better bowler. He was freakishly skillful as well as unorthodox. Wasim wasn't quite a one-trick pony (he was better with the new ball than some give him credit for) but he didn't have half Wasim's repertoire.

That said, at his peak - which I would put around the very early 1990s - Waqar hit heights as a strike bowler that I'm not sure have ever been equalled, whether by Wasim or anyone else.

[subshakerz]

Originally Posted by bagapath

somehow wasim (a greater bowler than waqar by mile) did not trouble tendulkar as much as his fellow conspirator or even akhthar (who is a distant fifth among great pak fast bowlers). i wish india and pak played tests between 94 and 97 when wasim was still close to his best and sachin too was reaching his peak. a technically correct attacking batsman facing a versatile fast bowler would surely have been one contest made in heaven.
.

Don't completely agree with this. I recall many battles between Wasim and Tendulkar in the 90s and the majority of the time it ended up as a stalemate i.e. Wasim rarely got him out but Tendulkar rarely dominated or took chances against Wasim. Tendulkar mostly focused on playing him out until another bowler came on he could take apart.

The only two occasions I can remember with Tendulkar dominating Wasim are the 2003 World Cup match (though he was dropped off Wasim's bowling), and the Sahara Cup match you mentioned previously:
http://www.cricinfo.com/wisdenalmana...tch/66030.html

[The Sean]

Have been thinking of a new one:

DK Lillee bowling to WG Grace.

Two fierce competitors, born winners and out-and-out cricketing legends. No quarter asked or given - would be a hell of a spectacle.

[subshakerz]

Originally Posted by The Sean

Have been thinking of a new one:

DK Lillee bowling to WG Grace.

Two fierce competitors, born winners and out-and-out cricketing legends. No quarter asked or given - would be a hell of a spectacle.

Dont know who would win out of 10, but it would be a nice clash of attitudes. I tilting towards Lillee.

[bagapath]

Originally Posted by subshakerz

Don't completely agree with this. I recall many battles between Wasim and Tendulkar in the 90s and the majority of the time it ended up as a stalemate i.e. Wasim rarely got him out but Tendulkar rarely dominated or took chances against Wasim. Tendulkar mostly focused on playing him out until another bowler came on he could take apart.

The only two occasions I can remember with Tendulkar dominating Wasim are the 2003 World Cup match (though he was dropped off Wasim's bowling), and the Sahara Cup match you mentioned previously:
1st ODI: India v Pakistan at Toronto, Sep 16, 1996 | Cricket Scorecard | Cricinfo.com

the fact that wasim didnt dismiss sachin enough means he didnt dominate him as much as waqar, shoaib or mcgrath who got tendulkar out more often. but for a six sachin hit off wasim in sharjah and a shooter akram bowled once to get rid of him, their battles - for the style, charisma and energy they both are otherwise known for - were quite tepid in nature.

[JBMAC]

Originally Posted by subshakerz

Dont know who would win out of 10, but it would be a nice clash of attitudes. I tilting towards Lillee.

So would I normally. However, having said that there were quite a number of occasions where Grace refused to be given out...so honours ould end up even