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Thread: 18 county system isn't the way forward for English cricket

  1. #1
    International Coach SeamUp's Avatar
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    18 county system isn't the way forward for English cricket

    This may be a bit controversial for some but I feel its the way England can get back to the top and continually compete at the top.

    I seriously believe the heart of the problem with Englands cricket is selection of the squads due to the difficulty to judge how good someone actually is if they do well domestically in county level.

    I say the 18 counties need to be ditched and franchises created to get the best-v-the best scenario in imho if England are to improve. Lets say because there are more pro players in England maybe 8 or 9 franchises need to be formed.

    You see with so many players playing you may have players like Mahmood and Plunkett who are averaging 20-25 range and get selected for England. But the less teams there are and more strength vs strength the range increases and you will see the good county bowlers be seperated by the bowlers with international potential.

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    Hall of Fame Member Marcuss's Avatar
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    Completely agree... too many of the counties are just full of Kolpaks and/or nobodies. 8 or 9 from 18 may be a bit extreme but 12 would be good. Something around that number, should aslo introduce rules with regards to having to play a certain number of U23 English qualified players or something along those lines IMO.

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    Norwood's on Fire GIMH's Avatar
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    Should get rid of all the southern counties IMO
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    International Coach SeamUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcussjd9 View Post
    Completely agree... too many of the counties are just full of Kolpaks and/or nobodies. 8 or 9 from 18 may be a bit extreme but 12 would be good. Something around that number, should aslo introduce rules with regards to having to play a certain number of U23 English qualified players or something along those lines IMO.
    I don't think its actually the Kolpaks that the problem mate and I'm not saying that because I'm South African. They're actually keeping up the quality of your cricket with so many counties.

    If the franchise system was put in place like in SA which has done wonders for our cricket I believe then the Kolpaks must be restricted.

    You see players like Key, Denly, Tredwell from Kent and Taylor from Leics should be playing with best v best scenario.

    At the end of the day you only find out who is the best if they continually play against the best.


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    International Captain stumpski's Avatar
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    Because obviously, tradition and history are things that English cricket should have nothing to do with. My own view is that any reduction of teams won't mean the reduction of foreign players - it'll just mean counties, sorry, franchises, taking the field with two or three (if that) qualified to play for England.

    I'm not saying it'll never happen, but if it does I imagine I'll just find another sport to follow. It would certainly mean the end of attending live matches. Cricket in England does not begin and end with the England team.

    Zaremba, over to you.

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    Hall of Fame Member Marcuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumpski View Post
    Because obviously, tradition and history are things that English cricket should have nothing to do with. My own view is that any reduction of teams won't mean the reduction of foreign players - it'll just mean counties, sorry, franchises, taking the field with two or three (if that) qualified to play for England.

    I'm not saying it'll never happen, but if it does I imagine I'll just find another sport to follow. It would certainly mean the end of attending live matches. Cricket in England does not begin and end with the England team.

    Zaremba, over to you.

    See I agree that it doesn't begin and end with the England team but surely that should be one of the main purposes of the County Championship? To blood new players for the England team.
    You speak of history and tradition and IIRC you're a Surrey man? Surely it would give you much greater sense of pride if it was a rookie batsman from Surrey who hit a match saving century rather than some West Indian who has come over as a Kolpak?
    Kolpak's aren't the only issue.. there are too many genuinely poor cricketers floating around the system. If the deadwood was to be cut, like I said I'm not calling for the shediing of over half our teams, then the quality of the competition would increase dramatically, it would make for much better following and much better cricket.

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    Hall of Fame Member Marcuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeamUp View Post
    I don't think its actually the Kolpaks that the problem mate and I'm not saying that because I'm South African. They're actually keeping up the quality of your cricket with so many counties.

    If the franchise system was put in place like in SA which has done wonders for our cricket I believe then the Kolpaks must be restricted.

    You see players like Key, Denly, Tredwell from Kent and Taylor from Leics should be playing with best v best scenario.

    At the end of the day you only find out who is the best if they continually play against the best.
    Yeah that's kind of my point, there shouldn't be a need for Kolpaks.

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    International Coach SeamUp's Avatar
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    STUMPSKI

    I was waiting for this counter-argument.

    Tradition tradition...only gets you so far. The point is county cricket is there to produce international cricketers.

    Do you think there was no tradition in SA domestic cricket. There is tons of tradition with Natal, Wetern Province and the old Transvaal just to name the kingpins since the early 1900's. It was hard to form our domestic franchises because I grew up watching a brilliant WP side that included so many stars and the WP culture.

    But thats not the point...the point is English cricket cannot continue to pick Ravi Bopara's and so on.

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    International Captain stumpski's Avatar
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    Just out of interest, does anyone actually watch the franchise teams? I know it's early days, but I wonder if they have any genuine support. The counties have loyal hardcore supporters who follow the team up and down the country; some of them have been members for decades. Where are they all supposed to go? Or don't they matter. I know plenty of people like that at Surrey who wouldn't cross the road to watch England. People like that identify more strongly with their county because they choose them, they stay with them through thick and thin, Supporting England isn't a choice if you're English and into cricket, it's just a default setting.

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    International Captain stumpski's Avatar
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    I'm not saying incidentally that there isn't scope for trimming, I reckon 14 counties would be better than 18; but there's no way I'd go 150 miles to watch 'South East England' or whatever dreadful sponsor's name they'd be given.

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    Hall of Fame Member Marcuss's Avatar
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    Yeah I agree. Don't really agree with the idea of Franchise cricket but some counties clearly aren't good enough. Could they go back to being minor counties?

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    International Coach SeamUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumpski View Post
    Just out of interest, does anyone actually watch the franchise teams? I know it's early days, but I wonder if they have any genuine support. The counties have loyal hardcore supporters who follow the team up and down the country; some of them have been members for decades. Where are they all supposed to go? Or don't they matter. I know plenty of people like that at Surrey who wouldn't cross the road to watch England. People like that identify more strongly with their county because they choose them, they stay with them through thick and thin, Supporting England isn't a choice if you're English and into cricket, it's just a default setting.
    Thers no problem supporting franchise teams in SA because most identify them with the past provincial sides who merged. List A and T20 games are well supported and sure 4-day cricket isn't well supported but thats because most people in SA cannot attend due to being at work.

    I'm not one to judge but I find it strange how someone can support their county over their country.

    At the end of the day I like to watch the quality cricket at international level where you will find it and the emerging talents in the domestic structure.

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    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeamUp View Post
    the point is English cricket cannot continue to pick Ravi Bopara's and so on.
    So if there were fewer teams the likes of Ravi Bopara wouldn't be picked? Then presumably there are better players waiting in the wings yet to be discovered? Who?

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    International Captain stumpski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeamUp View Post
    Thers no problem supporting franchise teams in SA because most identify them with the past provincial sides who merged. List A and T20 games are well supported and sure 4-day cricket isn't well supported but thats because most people in SA cannot attend due to being at work.

    I'm not one to judge but I find it strange how someone can support their county over their country.

    At the end of the day I like to watch the quality cricket at international level where you will find it and the emerging talents in the domestic structure.
    There is a direct equivalent to what I was referring to in football I think. Particularly with the lower-league sides who don't have expensive foreign players; fans will go all over the country to watch them play but at the same time regard the England team as a bunch of pampered millionaires; they might watch internationals on TV but wouldn't bother to go to Wembley. Anyway I'll leave the counter-argument to the likes of Fertang and Zaremba who can argue the case for the defence far more eloquently.

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    International Coach SeamUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    So if there were fewer teams the likes of Ravi Bopara wouldn't be picked? Then presumably there are better players waiting in the wings yet to be discovered? Who?
    This is the key question Zaremba. Because Bopara has been found to be a good county batsman and was chosen but not up to the very top level.

    Hence the range for the best of the best batsman to good county batsman would be found out.

    I'm not going to say who is better than him because its hars not only for me but the England selectors as well. But I certainly know the pecking order for SA due to having a franchise system in place.

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