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Thread: 18 county system isn't the way forward for English cricket

  1. #31
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sledger View Post
    Would love to see any sort of evidence to back that claim up to be honest.
    What more proof you want than one English born black playing county cricket currently?.

    Some may like cricket, but none would take it up seriously as a career sport option. Its football mainly or athletics. Its is very much seen as posch sport. If West Indies become a powerhouse again, it would help to revive some interest though.

  2. #32
    International Coach SeamUp's Avatar
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    I agree that Old Trafford and Hadingley have central bases.

    1.NOTTS/DERBS Trent Bridge

    2.LEICS/NORTHANTS Toss up I guess

    3.HAMPSHIRE/SUSSEX Rose Bowl

    4.SURREY/KENT Oval

    5.MIDDLESEX/ESSEX Lord's

    6.YORKSHIRE Headingley

    7.LANCASHIRE Old Trafford

    8.DURHAM Chester-le-street

    9.GLOUCS/SOMERSET Bristol (no more Taunton road)

    10.WARKS/WORCS Birmingham

    11. GLAMORGAN (Taffs could join the above one) Cardiff

  3. #33
    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie View Post
    The franchise idea aint bad TBF. But i think the structure of CC is pretty solid TBH. The unerlying factor affecting the quality of cricket in this country are simply how players are coached when they are younger & the fact that talent pool is unfortunately restricted to white people.

    The former could be improved, but i'm not sure if the latter can.
    I don't think this is correct (plenty of British Asians play cricket) although are certainly under-represented groups - the decline in popularity of the game among those of Afro-Caribbean origins is particularly disappointing. But even if the talent pool were really restricted to white people, it isn't a massive restriction of the talent pool given that over 90% of the British population is white.

  4. #34
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend fredfertang's Avatar
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    The two division County Championship and central contracts have largely addressed the, admittedly valid, concerns of those who criticised the system - I don't believe the structure of the game in England needs any fundamental change now


  5. #35
    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeamUp View Post
    3 more examples...

    Hampshire and Sussex...central base is the Rose Bowl

    Surrey and Kent...central base is the Oval

    Essex and Middlesex...central base is Lord's
    God, how awful.

    Sussex - the first ever First Class County - ceases to exist as a first class team. Hove becomes an outground and our "home" matches are played at Southampton. Arundel and Horsham? Forget it. They would cease to exist without any income, and would be sold off to make room for supermarket car parks.

    You would:
    (a) alienate a large part of such support as county cricket actually gets;
    (b) tear up 170 years of history with no guarantee of any positive outcome to show for it; and
    (c) guarantee at best atrophy, and in most cases outright closure, of some of the finest cricket grounds in England.


    Edit - tbf, Arundel wouldn't be sold off but it would be a great shame to stop playing FC cricket there
    Last edited by zaremba; 20-09-2009 at 03:49 PM.

  6. #36
    Cricketer Of The Year four_or_six's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeamUp View Post
    I agree that Old Trafford and Hadingley have central bases.

    1.NOTTS/DERBS Trent Bridge

    2.LEICS/NORTHANTS Toss up I guess

    3.HAMPSHIRE/SUSSEX Rose Bowl

    4.SURREY/KENT Oval

    5.MIDDLESEX/ESSEX Lord's

    6.YORKSHIRE Headingley

    7.LANCASHIRE Old Trafford

    8.DURHAM Chester-le-street

    9.GLOUCS/SOMERSET Bristol (no more Taunton road)

    10.WARKS/WORCS Birmingham

    11. GLAMORGAN (Taffs could join the above one) Cardiff
    I'm not sure what selection process you're using to merge clubs. Personally I'd be very dissapointed to lose Essex, I think they're a good club which had brought through good young players, and have a good ground and great local support.

    Tbh, I don't think the 18 county thing is that much of a problem now we have two divisions. And hopefully the Kolpak thing will calm down over the next year or two.

  7. #37
    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    It's ironic that we should be contemplating the reduction in FC counties, given that we only recently increased it by the addition of Durham, who are now back-to-back Champions and have produced a stream of international cricketers for England

  8. #38
    International Coach SeamUp's Avatar
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    2nd division is shocking cricket.

    I guess this debate ended once you said you watch your county over your country.

    Its just me..but I would prefer to watch Allan Donald or Dale Steyn who are high quality take wickets for my nation than a provincial or county bowler take wickets for my province/county.

    and for me to find the next Jacques Kallis and watch him emerge eventually from playing well domestically and joining him to play for the proteas than watch a county/provincial batsman score runs.

    For me it should be your country that is the be all and end all and that County cricket is there to produce talents for your nation.
    Last edited by SeamUp; 20-09-2009 at 03:54 PM.

  9. #39
    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeamUp View Post
    I guess this debate ended once you said you watch your county over your country.
    I didn't.

  10. #40
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    I don't think this is correct (plenty of British Asians play cricket) although are certainly under-represented groups - the decline in popularity of the game among those of Afro-Caribbean origins is particularly disappointing.
    Since 9/11 and the way the politics have treated the Asian community, whether they are citizens or naturalised immigrants, the majority dont want to represent ENG. I dont have any asian friends personally that support England in cricket.

    If you look at a average cricket match on TV, you dont see too much Asian fans in the stands. But when IND/PAK, they flock to the grounds.


    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba
    But even if the talent pool were really restricted to white people, it isn't a massive restriction of the talent pool given that over 90% of the British population is white.
    But how much of them prefer cricket to football or rugby though?. We need to stop poaching talent form other nations. Thats why i say, the underlying problem is how players are coached at youth level before they get to county cricket. Too much emphasis is placed on being technically sound in bowing & batting instead of players allowed to being natural.

  11. #41
    International Captain stumpski's Avatar
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    It has been suggested a few times before, tbf ... usually by someone from outside England like yourself (how much 2nd Division cricket do you watch?) who perhaps finds it difficult to appreciate the loyalty some of us feel towards county cricket. Perhaps if England were losing every Test series they played it would be a more urgent issue, but that's plainly not the case.

  12. #42
    International Coach SeamUp's Avatar
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    Yourself and Stumpski said that you know many people who do and it seems you are on a similar wave length by your hardened view againdt the franchise idea and tradition is the be all and end all.

    I support the Franchise Cobras and want them to win but I will support a young prodigous talents from the other team to do well so he can get Proteas recognition.

    That is why SA cricket is thriving I guess, because we view our domestic cricket as the grounding to produce Proteas talent.

    Australia and SA has 6 teams and it works wonders.

  13. #43
    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie View Post
    Since 9/11 and the way the politics have treated the Asian community, whether they are citizens or naturalised immigrants, the majority dont want to represent ENG. I dont have any asian friends personally that support England in cricket.
    It depends who your friends are, I suppose.

    Of my friends of Asian origin, I can't off the top of my head think of any that don't support England at cricket.

    Some of them have a strong attachment to an Asian team with which they have a family connection, but it doesn't stop them supporting England.

    Anyhow if we're looking at whether the Asian communities provide their fair share of England cricketers atm, the answer is obviously yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by aussie View Post
    But how much of them prefer cricket to football or rugby though?. We need to stop poaching talent form other nations. Thats why i say, the underlying problem is how players are coached at youth level before they get to county cricket. Too much emphasis is placed on being technically sound in bowing & batting instead of players allowed to being natural.
    Well that's a completely different point to your previous one (ie that the talent pool is restricted to white people). And this point is, in my view, a better one. The main problem is that, in England, football is god.

  14. #44
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend fredfertang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie View Post
    Since 9/11 and the way the politics have treated the Asian community, whether they are citizens or naturalised immigrants, the majority dont want to represent ENG.
    A quick glance down the lists suggests to me there are around 30 English players of what i will clumsily describe as "of Asian extraction" in the county squads - are you saying they
    don't have an ambition to play international cricket?

  15. #45
    International Coach SeamUp's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=stumpski;2036486]It has been suggested a few times before, tbf ... usually by someone from outside England like yourself (how much 2nd Division cricket do you watch?) who perhaps finds it difficult to appreciate the loyalty some of us feel towards county cricket. Perhaps if England were losing every Test series they played it would be a more urgent issue, but that's plainly not the case.[/QUOTE

    Well regardless of what your opinions are of Mssr. Hussain and Atherton, but they believe 2nd division cricket is very poor, especially the bowling. Then if the bowling is poor the batsmen don't face quality bowlers and its a chain effect.

    Take for example Rudolph, who averages a good 8-10 runs more in your county champs.

    Even Hashim who had a spell in Essex cleaned up shop.

    Why do you think we South Africans dominate your cricket over the years. Its the quality that is lacking due to many 'fish and chip' bowlers playing.
    Last edited by SeamUp; 20-09-2009 at 04:07 PM.

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