18 county system isn't the way forward for English cricket

[stumpski]

It has been suggested a few times before, tbf ... usually by someone from outside England like yourself (how much 2nd Division cricket do you watch?) who perhaps finds it difficult to appreciate the loyalty some of us feel towards county cricket. Perhaps if England were losing every Test series they played it would be a more urgent issue, but that's plainly not the case.

 

[SeamUp]

Yourself and Stumpski said that you know many people who do and it seems you are on a similar wave length by your hardened view againdt the franchise idea and tradition is the be all and end all.

I support the Franchise Cobras and want them to win but I will support a young prodigous talents from the other team to do well so he can get Proteas recognition.

That is why SA cricket is thriving I guess, because we view our domestic cricket as the grounding to produce Proteas talent.

Australia and SA has 6 teams and it works wonders.

 

[zaremba]

Since 9/11 and the way the politics have treated the Asian community, whether they are citizens or naturalised immigrants, the majority dont want to represent ENG. I dont have any asian friends personally that support England in cricket.

It depends who your friends are, I suppose.

Of my friends of Asian origin, I can't off the top of my head think of any that don't support England at cricket.

Some of them have a strong attachment to an Asian team with which they have a family connection, but it doesn't stop them supporting England.

Anyhow if we're looking at whether the Asian communities provide their fair share of England cricketers atm, the answer is obviously yes.

But how much of them prefer cricket to football or rugby though?. We need to stop poaching talent form other nations. Thats why i say, the underlying problem is how players are coached at youth level before they get to county cricket. Too much emphasis is placed on being technically sound in bowing & batting instead of players allowed to being natural.

Well that's a completely different point to your previous one (ie that the talent pool is restricted to white people). And this point is, in my view, a better one. The main problem is that, in England, football is god.

 

[fredfertang]

Since 9/11 and the way the politics have treated the Asian community, whether they are citizens or naturalised immigrants, the majority dont want to represent ENG.

A quick glance down the lists suggests to me there are around 30 English players of what i will clumsily describe as "of Asian extraction" in the county squads - are you saying they
don't have an ambition to play international cricket?

 

[SeamUp]

It has been suggested a few times before, tbf ... usually by someone from outside England like yourself (how much 2nd Division cricket do you watch?) who perhaps finds it difficult to appreciate the loyalty some of us feel towards county cricket. Perhaps if England were losing every Test series they played it would be a more urgent issue, but that's plainly not the case.[/QUOTE

Well regardless of what your opinions are of Mssr. Hussain and Atherton, but they believe 2nd division cricket is very poor, especially the bowling. Then if the bowling is poor the batsmen don't face quality bowlers and its a chain effect.

Take for example Rudolph, who averages a good 8-10 runs more in your county champs.

Even Hashim who had a spell in Essex cleaned up shop.

Why do you think we South Africans dominate your cricket over the years. Its the quality that is lacking due to many 'fish and chip' bowlers playing.

 

[four_or_six]

Yourself and Stumpski said that you know many people who do and it seems you are on a similar wave length by your hardened view againdt the franchise idea and tradition is the be all and end all.

I support the Franchise Cobras and want them to win but I will support a young prodigous talents from the other team to do well so he can get Proteas recognition.

That is why SA cricket is thriving I guess, because we view our domestic cricket as the grounding to produce Proteas talent.

Australia and SA has 6 teams and it works wonders.

If every country had a franchise system like South Africa, they still couldn't all be number one in the world. I don't reckon things are too bad in terms of the standard of Division 1 cricket compared to Australian domestic cricket. I don't know enought about South African domestic standards to comment.

 

[sledger]

Lol at the mention of 9/11. Clearly has nothing to do with anything whatsoever.

 

[SeamUp]

If every country had a franchise system like South Africa, they still couldn't all be number one in the world. I don't reckon things are too bad in terms of the standard of Division 1 cricket compared to Australian domestic cricket. I don't know enought about South African domestic standards to comment.

Our domestic cricky is extremely strong and thats even without some Kolpaks coming back to play.

Also our SA U19 side regularly do well in the bi-annual u19 WC's staged and they get introduced to our franchises correctly and the processes are well looked after.

 

[stumpski]

It has been suggested a few times before, tbf ... usually by someone from outside England like yourself (how much 2nd Division cricket do you watch?) who perhaps finds it difficult to appreciate the loyalty some of us feel towards county cricket. Perhaps if England were losing every Test series they played it would be a more urgent issue, but that's plainly not the case.[/QUOTE

Well regardless of what your opinions are of Mssr. Hussain and Atherton, but they believe 2nd division cricket is very poor, especially the bowling. Then if the bowling is poor the batsmen don't face quality bowlers and its a chain effect.

Take for example Rudolph, who averages a good 8-10 runs more in your county champs.

Even Hashim who had a spell in Essex cleaned up shop.

Well I reckon I probably watch more Championship cricket than Hussain and Atherton put together, but you make a good point about the bowling. Too many big scores are being made now and it isn't only foreign-born players cashing in. There is an argument that they play too much and that bowlers don't put in enough of an effort as a result, or are too injury-prone. I'm not sure they actually play more days of cricket a season than they did 50 years ago, but obviously there are more different types of cricket and so you could make a good case for a three-division competition in which each team plays ten four-day matches - I wouldn't be against that myself.

 

[SeamUp]

Stumpski

I guess you've also got too look at preparations of pitches, theres no point in roads being made because it will end in a tame draw.

But on the bowling I see highlights of your cricky and there is too much military medium being bolwed.

In SA we have 3 to 4 bowlers who aren't in the Proteas line up, who can hit 150kmph regularly. We have left armers and decent swing bolwers.

Good spinners and a brilliant leggie in Imran Tahir so our batsmen in each of the 6 franchise teams know that every game they play they will be up for a challenge.

I think for example a Rob Key could go to a champs game having a lazy attitude and many other batsmen due to poor quality bowling.

 

[zaremba]

England has always produced lots of medium pacers, they have always done well here. One issue may well be that young medium pacers enjoy success on helpful pitches (our climate is radically different to yours) and go on to play FC cricket on flatter pitches where they are less threatening.

One good thing about the overseas / Kolpak situation is that it increases the number of decent bowlers knocking around the County Championship. Imran Tahir, for instance, plays plays more cricket in England than he does in South Africa. Before him there was Mushy, Warne and Murali, among others.

 

[SeamUp]

Many of our domestic 4-day cricket pitches are exremely spicy or viperish or a seamers paradise as well. Wanderers and Kingsmead to name but 2.

Medium-pacers work too a certain extent and they need to have nouse and quality but it seems a lot of them currently don't.

 

[Richard]

WoW, 50 posts in the space of 2-and-a-bit hours.

Simple reason why there is absolutely no need to change the 18-county structure: it won't help anything. The "problem" with English cricket is lack of involvement, poor coaching calibre and erroneous selections (though this may be less bad at lower levels than at the top). Only a small number of the population will ever play cricket and high-quality coaching of the minority who do is relatively rare.

These are the problems that need to be addressed. The idea that some sort of attempted alchemist's-formula method involving reduction in the number of teams will help has been around for a fair while now and the reasons for its lack of use were the same now as they were when it was first suggested.

Country > county, beyond question, because without a decent high-profile country team which brings in revenue there will be no county cricket. But if county cricket was better organised and priorities better, well... prioritised... then the game would slowly be spurred to excellence more than it is currently.

Reducing the number of teams is something that sounds nice and easy on paper but won't have any practical effect in upping standards.

 

[SeamUp]

WoW, 50 posts in the space of 2-and-a-bit hours.

Simple reason why there is absolutely no need to change the 18-county structure: it won't help anything. The "problem" with English cricket is lack of involvement, poor coaching calibre and erroneous selections (though this may be less bad at lower levels than at the top). Only a small number of the population will ever play cricket and high-quality coaching of the minority who do is relatively rare.

These are the problems that need to be addressed. The idea that some sort of attempted alchemist's-formula method involving reduction in the number of teams will help has been around for a fair while now and the reasons for its lack of use were the same now as they were when it was first suggested.

Country > county, beyond question, because without a decent high-profile country team which brings in revenue there will be no county cricket. But if county cricket was better organised and priorities better, well... prioritised... then the game would slowly be spurred to excellence more than it is currently.

Reducing the number of teams is something that sounds nice and easy on paper but won't have any practical effect in upping standards.

It may take time but I think having 10 franchises would be brilliant and do wonders for your cricket. Therefore ECB need to put plans and a blueprint in place.

In SA, do you think cricket is the number one sport...never...football for the black population and rugby for the afrikaans population is the ultimate and they are the majority in the country. Sure we have good school boy cricket and provincial school weeks but are we rocket scientists in producing cricketing talent.

Strength vs strength or best v best surely improves the standards of your cricket...that is a given.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

This is hardly an original thought. Trevor Bailey was saying it in the 70's. He was also saying that there isn't a cat in hells chance of any counties joining together or disappearing - and that's also still true.

 

[zaremba]

Strength vs strength or best v best surely improves the standards of your cricket...that is a given.

Unless you happen to be Staffordshire's SF Barnes

 

[Richard]

In SA, do you think cricket is the number one sport...never...football for the black population and rugby for the afrikaans population is the ultimate and they are the majority in the country. Sure we have good school boy cricket and provincial school weeks but are we rocket scientists in producing cricketing talent.

Grass-roots cricket in South Africa is considerably superior to grass-roots cricket in the UK. We on CW have had that from the horse's mouth, from someone who has coached extensively in both countries, but sadly isn't posting very much at the moment.

 

[sledger]

Its still a very small portion of the Asian community. The majority of Asian in this country who are born brits even dont support ENG in cricket, thus dont want to represent this country.

Of course dont lets forget the young black community who is 99% all about football. Just one English born black in Mark Carberry plays county cricket currently.

It's Michael Carberry actually. I'm also fairly certain Alex Tudor is playing for Surrey at the moment as well.

 

[Furball]

County cricket wouldn't neccesarily be destroyed by a move to franchise cricket. I'd keep the County championship as it is, it just wouldn't be the top tier of cricket domestically in England anymore.

 

[vic_orthdox]

What the 18 counties mean is that there should be a tier between that and England/Lions selection. The idea that I would float would be splitting England into four regions, and playing three four day games during a five week period, and thus allowing a break during the year, for players who aren't involved, and whilst the Test are going on. This can put players under greater heat and test them further. This competition would be for anyone who is currently England qualified.