• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

18 county system isn't the way forward for English cricket

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
Regardless of the root causes this is an issue that needs to be addressed from the bottom up so I'm not sure reducing the number of counties would be a panacea.
Spot on. If you could be confident that destroying county cricket would actually produce an improvement in England's fortunes, you could at least make a case for it. But, no.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
The franchise idea aint bad TBF. But i think the structure of CC is pretty solid TBH. The unerlying factor affecting the quality of cricket in this country are simply how players are coached when they are younger & the fact that talent pool is unfortunately restricted to white people.

The former could be improved, but i'm not sure if the latter can.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
No it hasn't touched a nerve, it's just that I heard stumpski's call-to-arms and I responded :)

As for the cricket grounds, think about the maths of it. Let's imagine Kent, Hants, Sussex and Surrey merged to form the aforementioned McDonald's SouthEast SuperCricket franchise. 2 venues from that lot? Well the Oval would be an automatic choice. Then pick one from the Rose Bowl (an international venue) and Canterbury (established 1847). Hove wouldn't get a look-in. Let alone Arundel, Horsham, Eastbourne.
Oh good.

Look this is how it works in South Africa...

The old 11 team provincial system grouped 2 areas together to form the 6 franchises.

Western Province TEST GROUND: Newlands
Boland Paarl

Eastern Province TEST GROUND: St Georges
Border East London

Natal TEST GROUND: Durban

Griquas Kimberley
Free State TEST GROUND: Bloemfontein

Northern Transvaal TEST GROUND: Pretoria
Easterns Benoni

Transvaal TEST GROUND: Joburg
North West Potchefstroom

Those 11 sides still play and are essentially amateur sides seen to feed the 6 franchise teams.

In England maybe 9 or even 10 franchises get created and they have a central base and the smaller ground that is non-test.

For instance Notts and Derbs and maybe even Leics join and the central base would be Trent Bridge and they will still play at Derbs and Leics.
 
Last edited:

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
The franchise idea aint bad TBF. But i think the structure of CC is pretty solid TBH. The unerlying factor affecting the quality of cricket in this country are simply how players are coached when they are younger & the fact that talent pool is unfortunately restricted to white people.

The former could be improved, but i'm not sure if the latter can.












etc
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Its still a very small portion of the Asian community. The majority of Asian in this country who are born brits even dont support ENG in cricket, thus dont want to represent this country.

Of course dont lets forget the young black community who is 99% all about football. Just one English born black in Mark Carberry plays county cricket currently.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
3 more examples...

Hampshire and Sussex...central base is the Rose Bowl

Surrey and Kent...central base is the Oval

Essex and Middlesex...central base is Lord's
 
Last edited:

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Its still a very small portion of the Asian community. The majority of Asian in this country who are born brits even dont support ENG in cricket, thus dont want to represent this country.

Of course dont lets forget the young black community who is 99% all about football. Just one English born black in Mark Carberry plays county cricket currently.
Would love to see any sort of evidence to back that claim up to be honest.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Oh good.

Look this is how it works in South Africa...

The old 11 team provincial system grouped 2 areas together to form the 6 franchises.

Western Province TEST GROUND: Newlands
Boland Paarl

Eastern Province TEST GROUND: St Georges
Border East London

Natal TEST GROUND: Durban

Griquas Kimberley
Free State TEST GROUND: Bloemfontein

Northern Transvaal TEST GROUND: Pretoria
Easterns Benoni

Transvaal TEST GROUND: Joburg
North West Potchefstroom

Those 11 sides still play and are essentially amateur sides seen to feed the 6 franchise teams.

In England maybe 9 or even 10 franchises get created and they have a central base and the smaller ground that is non-test.

For instance Notts and Derbs and maybe even Leics join and the central base would be Trent Bridge and they will still play at Derbs and Leics.
It makes sense. But i cant see Yorkshire & Lancashire for eg combining to do a similar thing. The county tradition in ENG is too strong & now probably too bureaucratic to change up.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Would love to see any sort of evidence to back that claim up to be honest.
What more proof you want than one English born black playing county cricket currently?.

Some may like cricket, but none would take it up seriously as a career sport option. Its football mainly or athletics. Its is very much seen as posch sport. If West Indies become a powerhouse again, it would help to revive some interest though.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
I agree that Old Trafford and Hadingley have central bases.

1.NOTTS/DERBS Trent Bridge

2.LEICS/NORTHANTS Toss up I guess

3.HAMPSHIRE/SUSSEX Rose Bowl

4.SURREY/KENT Oval

5.MIDDLESEX/ESSEX Lord's

6.YORKSHIRE Headingley

7.LANCASHIRE Old Trafford

8.DURHAM Chester-le-street

9.GLOUCS/SOMERSET Bristol (no more Taunton road)

10.WARKS/WORCS Birmingham

11. GLAMORGAN (Taffs could join the above one) Cardiff
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
The franchise idea aint bad TBF. But i think the structure of CC is pretty solid TBH. The unerlying factor affecting the quality of cricket in this country are simply how players are coached when they are younger & the fact that talent pool is unfortunately restricted to white people.

The former could be improved, but i'm not sure if the latter can.
I don't think this is correct (plenty of British Asians play cricket) although are certainly under-represented groups - the decline in popularity of the game among those of Afro-Caribbean origins is particularly disappointing. But even if the talent pool were really restricted to white people, it isn't a massive restriction of the talent pool given that over 90% of the British population is white.
 

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
The two division County Championship and central contracts have largely addressed the, admittedly valid, concerns of those who criticised the system - I don't believe the structure of the game in England needs any fundamental change now
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
3 more examples...

Hampshire and Sussex...central base is the Rose Bowl

Surrey and Kent...central base is the Oval

Essex and Middlesex...central base is Lord's
God, how awful.

Sussex - the first ever First Class County - ceases to exist as a first class team. Hove becomes an outground and our "home" matches are played at Southampton. Arundel and Horsham? Forget it. They would cease to exist without any income, and would be sold off to make room for supermarket car parks.

You would:
(a) alienate a large part of such support as county cricket actually gets;
(b) tear up 170 years of history with no guarantee of any positive outcome to show for it; and
(c) guarantee at best atrophy, and in most cases outright closure, of some of the finest cricket grounds in England.


Edit - tbf, Arundel wouldn't be sold off but it would be a great shame to stop playing FC cricket there
 
Last edited:

four_or_six

Cricketer Of The Year
I agree that Old Trafford and Hadingley have central bases.

1.NOTTS/DERBS Trent Bridge

2.LEICS/NORTHANTS Toss up I guess

3.HAMPSHIRE/SUSSEX Rose Bowl

4.SURREY/KENT Oval

5.MIDDLESEX/ESSEX Lord's

6.YORKSHIRE Headingley

7.LANCASHIRE Old Trafford

8.DURHAM Chester-le-street

9.GLOUCS/SOMERSET Bristol (no more Taunton road)

10.WARKS/WORCS Birmingham

11. GLAMORGAN (Taffs could join the above one) Cardiff
I'm not sure what selection process you're using to merge clubs. Personally I'd be very dissapointed to lose Essex, I think they're a good club which had brought through good young players, and have a good ground and great local support.

Tbh, I don't think the 18 county thing is that much of a problem now we have two divisions. And hopefully the Kolpak thing will calm down over the next year or two.
 

zaremba

Cricketer Of The Year
It's ironic that we should be contemplating the reduction in FC counties, given that we only recently increased it by the addition of Durham, who are now back-to-back Champions and have produced a stream of international cricketers for England
 

SeamUp

International Coach
2nd division is shocking cricket.

I guess this debate ended once you said you watch your county over your country.

Its just me..but I would prefer to watch Allan Donald or Dale Steyn who are high quality take wickets for my nation than a provincial or county bowler take wickets for my province/county.

and for me to find the next Jacques Kallis and watch him emerge eventually from playing well domestically and joining him to play for the proteas than watch a county/provincial batsman score runs.

For me it should be your country that is the be all and end all and that County cricket is there to produce talents for your nation.
 
Last edited:

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
I don't think this is correct (plenty of British Asians play cricket) although are certainly under-represented groups - the decline in popularity of the game among those of Afro-Caribbean origins is particularly disappointing.
Since 9/11 and the way the politics have treated the Asian community, whether they are citizens or naturalised immigrants, the majority dont want to represent ENG. I dont have any asian friends personally that support England in cricket.

If you look at a average cricket match on TV, you dont see too much Asian fans in the stands. But when IND/PAK, they flock to the grounds.


zaremba said:
But even if the talent pool were really restricted to white people, it isn't a massive restriction of the talent pool given that over 90% of the British population is white.
But how much of them prefer cricket to football or rugby though?. We need to stop poaching talent form other nations. Thats why i say, the underlying problem is how players are coached at youth level before they get to county cricket. Too much emphasis is placed on being technically sound in bowing & batting instead of players allowed to being natural.
 

Top