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Thread: 18 county system isn't the way forward for English cricket

  1. #16
    International Coach SeamUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumpski View Post
    There is a direct equivalent to what I was referring to in football I think. Particularly with the lower-league sides who don't have expensive foreign players; fans will go all over the country to watch them play but at the same time regard the England team as a bunch of pampered millionaires; they might watch internationals on TV but wouldn't bother to go to Wembley. Anyway I'll leave the counter-argument to the likes of Fertang and Zaremba who can argue the case for the defence far more eloquently.

    I support Nottingham Forest so I know how that feels.

    But I still feel its difficult to compare the 2 sports because there are far more people who play football than cricket and therefore more people who have the required qualities to keep the fans going to watch their football side.

    Cricket is a funny sport, being and individual within a team and individuals get found out a lot more easier and hence the there aren't enough criketers who have brilliant qualities unlike in Football there are quite a few footballers playing international football.

    That is why there is more international cricket than international football. To get the best v the best and to watch quality really really quality cricket.

  2. #17
    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeamUp View Post
    I'm not one to judge but I find it strange how someone can support their county over their country.
    I know plenty of supporters who put county above country. The same happens in football - many many football fans would put their club above England.

    Anyhow my club has been in existence since 1839. The Club Committee should be very reluctant to sign the club's death warrant by agreeing to merge with, say, Kent / Surrey / Hants to form the McDonald's SouthEast SuperCricket franchise. I can't see myself feeling any particular attachment to such a franchise. Cricket at venues such as Hove (where Sussex has played since 1872), Horsham, Eastbourne, and Arundel would die out. Not an appealing prospect for me.

    Anyhow the system is not as badly flawed as some people make out. The likes of Ravi Bopara whom you use as a byword for crapness just regained the Ashes. England are competitive. They have no God-given right to be the best in the world.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    I know plenty of supporters who put county above country. The same happens in football - many many football fans would put their club above England.

    Anyhow my club has been in existence since 1839. The Club Committee should be very reluctant to sign the club's death warrant by agreeing to merge with, say, Kent / Surrey / Hants to form the McDonald's SouthEast SuperCricket franchise. I can't see myself feeling any particular attachment to such a franchise. Cricket at venues such as Hove (where Sussex has played since 1872), Horsham, Eastbourne, and Arundel would die out. Not an appealing prospect for me.

    Anyhow the system is not as badly flawed as some people make out. The likes of Ravi Bopara whom you use as a byword for crapness just regained the Ashes. England are competitive. They have no God-given right to be the best in the world.
    Look as I said this may touchh a nerve with some and it seems to have done just that.

    Those venues wouldn't die out because a franchise will have 2 venues.

    Sure you may have won the Ashes and a win is a win but wheres the consistency going to be found for the future.

  4. #19
    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeamUp View Post
    Look as I said this may touchh a nerve with some and it seems to have done just that.

    Those venues wouldn't die out because a franchise will have 2 venues.
    No it hasn't touched a nerve, it's just that I heard stumpski's call-to-arms and I responded

    As for the cricket grounds, think about the maths of it. Let's imagine Kent, Hants, Sussex and Surrey merged to form the aforementioned McDonald's SouthEast SuperCricket franchise. 2 venues from that lot? Well the Oval would be an automatic choice. Then pick one from the Rose Bowl (an international venue) and Canterbury (established 1847). Hove wouldn't get a look-in. Let alone Arundel, Horsham, Eastbourne.


  5. #20
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    I think 18 counties probably is too many. The fact that so many are reliant on Kolpaks and EU passport holders to prop them up would seem to support this.

    However, where the counties are really culpable is their their collective failure to consistently produce locally-sourced talent. One might speculate as to the reasons for this; the utter hegemony of association football is perhaps one & (without wishing to seem too much of the chippy socialist) the sale of school playing fields under the Thatcher government in the 80s is maybe another.

    Regardless of the root causes this is an issue that needs to be addressed from the bottom up so I'm not sure reducing the number of counties would be a panacea.
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  6. #21
    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Regardless of the root causes this is an issue that needs to be addressed from the bottom up so I'm not sure reducing the number of counties would be a panacea.
    Spot on. If you could be confident that destroying county cricket would actually produce an improvement in England's fortunes, you could at least make a case for it. But, no.

  7. #22
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    The franchise idea aint bad TBF. But i think the structure of CC is pretty solid TBH. The unerlying factor affecting the quality of cricket in this country are simply how players are coached when they are younger & the fact that talent pool is unfortunately restricted to white people.

    The former could be improved, but i'm not sure if the latter can.

  8. #23
    Hall of Fame Member Marcuss's Avatar
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    Forget franchise cricket, how about just cutting some of the current counties?

  9. #24
    International Coach SeamUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    No it hasn't touched a nerve, it's just that I heard stumpski's call-to-arms and I responded

    As for the cricket grounds, think about the maths of it. Let's imagine Kent, Hants, Sussex and Surrey merged to form the aforementioned McDonald's SouthEast SuperCricket franchise. 2 venues from that lot? Well the Oval would be an automatic choice. Then pick one from the Rose Bowl (an international venue) and Canterbury (established 1847). Hove wouldn't get a look-in. Let alone Arundel, Horsham, Eastbourne.
    Oh good.

    Look this is how it works in South Africa...

    The old 11 team provincial system grouped 2 areas together to form the 6 franchises.

    Western Province TEST GROUND: Newlands
    Boland Paarl

    Eastern Province TEST GROUND: St Georges
    Border East London

    Natal TEST GROUND: Durban

    Griquas Kimberley
    Free State TEST GROUND: Bloemfontein

    Northern Transvaal TEST GROUND: Pretoria
    Easterns Benoni

    Transvaal TEST GROUND: Joburg
    North West Potchefstroom

    Those 11 sides still play and are essentially amateur sides seen to feed the 6 franchise teams.

    In England maybe 9 or even 10 franchises get created and they have a central base and the smaller ground that is non-test.

    For instance Notts and Derbs and maybe even Leics join and the central base would be Trent Bridge and they will still play at Derbs and Leics.
    Last edited by SeamUp; 20-09-2009 at 03:14 PM.

  10. #25
    Norwood's on Fire GIMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie View Post
    The franchise idea aint bad TBF. But i think the structure of CC is pretty solid TBH. The unerlying factor affecting the quality of cricket in this country are simply how players are coached when they are younger & the fact that talent pool is unfortunately restricted to white people.

    The former could be improved, but i'm not sure if the latter can.












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  12. #27
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero View Post












    etc
    Its still a very small portion of the Asian community. The majority of Asian in this country who are born brits even dont support ENG in cricket, thus dont want to represent this country.

    Of course dont lets forget the young black community who is 99% all about football. Just one English born black in Mark Carberry plays county cricket currently.

  13. #28
    International Coach SeamUp's Avatar
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    3 more examples...

    Hampshire and Sussex...central base is the Rose Bowl

    Surrey and Kent...central base is the Oval

    Essex and Middlesex...central base is Lord's
    Last edited by SeamUp; 20-09-2009 at 03:20 PM.

  14. #29
    Spanish_Vicente sledger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aussie View Post
    Its still a very small portion of the Asian community. The majority of Asian in this country who are born brits even dont support ENG in cricket, thus dont want to represent this country.

    Of course dont lets forget the young black community who is 99% all about football. Just one English born black in Mark Carberry plays county cricket currently.
    Would love to see any sort of evidence to back that claim up to be honest.

  15. #30
    Hall of Fame Member aussie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeamUp View Post
    Oh good.

    Look this is how it works in South Africa...

    The old 11 team provincial system grouped 2 areas together to form the 6 franchises.

    Western Province TEST GROUND: Newlands
    Boland Paarl

    Eastern Province TEST GROUND: St Georges
    Border East London

    Natal TEST GROUND: Durban

    Griquas Kimberley
    Free State TEST GROUND: Bloemfontein

    Northern Transvaal TEST GROUND: Pretoria
    Easterns Benoni

    Transvaal TEST GROUND: Joburg
    North West Potchefstroom

    Those 11 sides still play and are essentially amateur sides seen to feed the 6 franchise teams.

    In England maybe 9 or even 10 franchises get created and they have a central base and the smaller ground that is non-test.

    For instance Notts and Derbs and maybe even Leics join and the central base would be Trent Bridge and they will still play at Derbs and Leics.
    It makes sense. But i cant see Yorkshire & Lancashire for eg combining to do a similar thing. The county tradition in ENG is too strong & now probably too bureaucratic to change up.

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