Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 49

Thread: Great ODI Bowlers - Where does Brett Lee stand?

  1. #1
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Furball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Anyone But England
    Posts
    20,251

    Great ODI Bowlers - Where does Brett Lee stand?

    314 wickets from 178 matches, 9 5 wicket hauls, average 22 and a strike rate in the high twenties.

    When people think of great ODI fast bowlers we think of Wasim, Waqar, McGrath, Pollock, Garner, Hadlee...where does Brett Lee stand in comparison?

    edit: from a quick glance at Statsguru, statistically at least, Brett Lee compares favourably with anyone.
    Last edited by Furball; 14-09-2009 at 12:24 PM.

  2. #2
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Locked up inside my opium den, surrounded by some Chinamen
    Posts
    45,261
    I'd say he's up there. His record in ODIs is anomalous in a way, because he's often thought of as quite an expensive bowler in tests. His strike rate in the longer form has always been impressive, but the perception of him is one of a bowler who can go for a few.

    His ER of 4.7ish is more than most of the chaps you list (only marginally more than Waqar's tho, tbf) but it's more than acceptable & his average & (in particular) strike-rate are exceptional. Any bowler who has Lee's facility for yorkers is going to be a force in the shortened formats.

    I suspect possibly where he does worse in comparison to the bowlers you've mentioned is that they were all genuinely great test bowlers too; Lee was a good and on occasion a very good test performer, but not quite in the same bracket in the longest form of the game. I think a lot of us (myself undoubteded included) tend to mark down those who're greats in limited overs but fall short in tests, even if it's just subconsciously.
    Cricket Web's 2013/14 Premier League Tipping Champion

    - As featured in The Independent.

    "I don't believe a word of Pietersen's book, but then I don't believe a word anyone else has said either."
    - Simon Barnes renders further comment on KP's autobiography superfluous in a sentence

  3. #3
    International Debutant Cruxdude's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,448
    I rate him as a great bowler. His duels with Sachin when INdia toured last were epic.

  4. #4
    FBU
    FBU is offline
    State Vice-Captain FBU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,107
    Quote Originally Posted by GingerFurball View Post
    314 wickets from 178 matches, 9 5 wicket hauls, average 22 and a strike rate in the high twenties.

    When people think of great ODI fast bowlers we think of Wasim, Waqar, McGrath, Pollock, Garner, Hadlee...where does Brett Lee stand in comparison?
    Don't forget Bond, he's back.


  5. #5
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Pratters's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Kolkata, India
    Posts
    20,797
    Averages 37 in India, 31 in Sri Lanka, has never played in Pakistan. Needs to correct this.

  6. #6
    Cricketer Of The Year Xuhaib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Karachi
    Posts
    9,506
    Quote Originally Posted by Pratters View Post
    Averages 37 in India, 31 in Sri Lanka, has never played in Pakistan. Needs to correct this.
    He's a poor sub cont bowler quite surprising since fast skiddy reverse swing bowlers generally like the SC.

  7. #7
    International Coach pup11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    India
    Posts
    12,146
    I think Brett Lee is a fantastic bowler when he is bowling with a white ball, and he is definitely one of the best quicks in the last one decade in the shorter form of the game, though he does have his fair share of weaknesses.

    As Pratters pointed out, his record in the sub-continent is pretty mediocre, and that's something he would need to rectify, and he would have a chance to do that pretty soon as well, the other problem is for a bowler of his caliber, he has through his career relied basically just on pace, and really he hasn't given much thought to developing some variations.

    Though having said that, after his recent comeback from injury, he seems to have developed a deceptive slower-ball and slower ball bouncer, which should hold him in good stead for the upcoming years of his career, so if he stays fit, he should end up with atleast 400 ODI wickets, which should indeed rank him right up there with some of the very best.
    Last edited by pup11; 15-09-2009 at 12:58 AM.

  8. #8
    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    25,317
    I'd imagine that his record at home would be pretty awesome?

  9. #9
    International Coach pup11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    India
    Posts
    12,146
    Quote Originally Posted by Xuhaib View Post
    He's a poor sub cont bowler quite surprising since fast skiddy reverse swing bowlers generally like the SC.
    If you are surprised by that, then chances are you haven't been following Lee that closely, he has struggled in sub-continent due to the lengths he has bowled there, more than anything else, on slowish sub-continental tracks his back of a length bowling and his extra yard of pace sit-up nicely for the batsmen to spank his bowling to all parts of the ground.

  10. #10
    International Debutant inbox24's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2,108
    How does he average in England?
    Inappropriate signature.
    --Moderators

  11. #11
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Uppercut's Avatar
    Tournaments Won: 1
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    .
    Posts
    23,724
    He's almost a pure reverse-swing bowler these days (Troy Cooley involved, maybe?). You can only imagine how good he would be without the 34th-over ball change rule.
    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    The Filth have comfortably the better bowling. But the Gash have the batting. Might be quite good to watch.

  12. #12
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    2005
    Posts
    80,401
    Lee's capable of bowling very well in ODIs, but actually does so less often than his average would suggest. The combination of average and economy-rate suggests "expensive wicket-taker"; the reality is that when Lee bowls well he tends to bowl economically and penetratively, and when he bowls badly neither. Lee has on plenty of occasions - due to the excellence of the rest of Australia's ODI attack for almost all of his career - bowled pretty badly and ended-up with, say, 9-52-3, because of the fact that batsmen have had to hit-out at him with ~15 overs left and he's cleaned-up some gimme wickets.

    I'd say Lee probably bowls well about ~40% of the time in ODIs, and badly ~60%. The best bowlers would tend more to bowl well ~70% of the time. So no, to my mind Lee isn't up there with the very best, nor terribly close, but certainly in the next tier down.
    RD
    Appreciating cricket's greatest legend ever - HD Bird...............Funniest post (intentionally) ever.....Runner-up.....Third.....Fourth
    (Accidental) founder of Twenty20 Is Boring Society. Click and post to sign-up.
    chris.hinton: h
    FRAZ: Arshad's are a long gone stories
    RIP Fardin Qayyumi (AKA "cricket player"; "Bob"), 1/11/1990-15/4/2006

  13. #13
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Uppercut's Avatar
    Tournaments Won: 1
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    .
    Posts
    23,724
    Brett Lee's economy rate is more a result of when he bowls IMO. Until the 34th-over ball change was introduced, he'd very rarely bowl a single over that wasn't either powerplay or death (at the moment he's bowling in both at the same time).

    Also have to account for the changing eras, of course.

    The stats tell you a lot less in ODIs than they do in tests though. Personally I find a fantastically economical wicket-taker like Pollock or McGrath a little more valuable than Lee. Certainly open to debate though.

  14. #14
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Uppercut's Avatar
    Tournaments Won: 1
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    .
    Posts
    23,724
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    because of the fact that batsmen have had to hit-out at him with ~15 overs left and he's cleaned-up some gimme wickets.
    ^ Makes no sense.

  15. #15
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    2005
    Posts
    80,401
    Of course it does. Lee can have bowled, say, 5-30-1, not very well, and can come back and bowl not-very-well once again but because the oppo is needing 120 off 15 overs, he can get gifted a couple of wickets and end with 4-22-2 in his second spell. This is great for the bowling-average, but doesn't in reality represent bowling well.

    And such a thing has happened with Lee on quite a few occasions.

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. The Fast Bowler's fast Bowlers
    By SJS in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 283
    Last Post: 22-09-2012, 08:31 PM
  2. Great characters
    By pako007 in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 23-08-2009, 03:11 AM
  3. How to hit a great 6!
    By kevinpietersen in forum Coaching and Equipment Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 19-07-2009, 02:07 PM
  4. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 13-04-2009, 09:55 PM
  5. Replies: 39
    Last Post: 22-03-2007, 07:14 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •