All Time New Zealand XI

[Lillian Thomson]

The voting has started on Cricinfo.

Openers

Middle Order

[S.P. Fleming]

Have been closely following and debating this side. The top six I have come up with is

John Wright
Glenn Turner
Stephen Fleming
Martin Crowe
Bert Sutcliffe
John R Reid

with special mentions to Mark Richardson, Martin Donnelly, Andrew Jones and Stewie Dempster.

[Chubb]

I went with:
Turner
Dempster
Crowe
Sutcliffe
Fleming

And I will be voting for:
Chris Cairns
Dan Vettori
Richard Hadlee
Ian Smith (because McCullum has pissed me off in tests recently)
Shane Bond
Jack Cowie

I do find it very hard to leave John R Reid out of the team... he is nailed on as twelfth man because he could do everything. I found a book called Alec Bedser's cricket choice once and he had Reid in the NZ all-time eleven as the keeper!

[slugger]

mine so far

Turner................Avg. 44.6 HS 259 SR ??
Richardson.........Avg. 44.7 HS 145 SR 37.6
Crowe................Avg. 45.3 HS 299 SR 44.6
Jones.................Avg. 44.2 HS 186 SR 39.2
Astle..................Avg. 37.0 HS 220 SR 49.6

Team................Avg. 43.1

[Hurricane]

Have been closely following and debating this side. The top six I have come up with is

John Wright
Glenn Turner
Stephen Fleming
Martin Crowe
Bert Sutcliffe
John R Reid

with special mentions to Mark Richardson, Martin Donnelly, Andrew Jones and Stewie Dempster.

I have voted for the same top 5 you have marked down.
Andrew Jones was never going to get my vote and it wasn't his technique that bothered me - it was the fact he didn't rotate the strike. He liked being on strike and I caught him once or twice trying to take singles towards the end of the over so that he could face the next over despite the fact he was batting with a good batsman. He also was a slow scorer. Someone has listed his SR here at 39 and that sounds about right. That SR would be good for an opener but not from your number 3.

I didn't vote for Donnelly as I didn't think it was fair to pick someone who played only 7 tests.

As for Smith vs McCullum
Smith avg 25.56
McCullum avg 31.7

But Smith was the better keeper. I will think about my vote on this one more.

[Athlai]

McCullum isn't finished yet, expect he can bring that average up to 34-35 by the end of his career.

[Athlai]

I have voted for the same top 5 you have marked down.
Andrew Jones was never going to get my vote and it wasn't his technique that bothered me - it was the fact he didn't rotate the strike. He liked being on strike and I caught him once or twice trying to take singles towards the end of the over so that he could face the next over despite the fact he was batting with a good batsman. He also was a slow scorer. Someone has listed his SR here at 39 and that sounds about right. That SR would be good for an opener but not from your number 3.

I didn't vote for Donnelly as I didn't think it was fair to pick someone who played only 7 tests.

As for Smith vs McCullum
Smith avg 25.56
McCullum avg 31.7

But Smith was the better keeper. I will think about my vote on this one more.

Voted for Jones because I rate him about the same as Fleming and thought he'd get less votes.

[Craig]

Crowe
Fleming
Sutcliffe

[Meridio]

Have so far voted for:

Turner
Dempster
Sutcliffe
Crowe
Donnelly

Though was tempted to discount Dempster and Donnelly on the 'didn't play enough tests' qualification.

[hallmitchell]

Turner
Dempster
John R Reid
M.Crowe
M.Donnelly


I'll take a punt on the others.
C.Cairns
R.Hadlee
I. Smith
D.Vettori
J.Bracewell.
S.Bond

[Craig]

FTR my team is:

Wright
Turner
Crowe
Fleming
Sutcliffe

[SJS]

My all time New Zealand side would read

1. Charles Dempster
2. Glen Turner
3. Bert Sutcliffe
4. Martin Crowe
5. Fleming
6. John Reid
7. Cairns Chris
8. Richard Hadlee
9. Daniell Vettori
10. Ken Wadsworth
11. Shane Bond

12th Man Bevan Congdon.

[Flem274*]

Vettori? Because you feel the need for a spinner?

Good player, but can't see him doing jack against all time XIs, would go in with the likes of Cowie or Taylor myself.

Could see Fleming continuing his get to fifty and out style, guessing you don't think Donnelly or JF Reid played enough? Because I'd include them ahead of Fleming.

[SJS]

Vettori? Because you feel the need for a spinner?

Good player, but can't see him doing jack against all time XIs, would go in with the likes of Cowie or Taylor myself.

Could see Fleming continuing his get to fifty and out style, guessing you don't think Donnelly or JF Reid played enough? Because I'd include them ahead of Fleming.

I completely agree about Vettori. It was a very reluctant last minute inclusion. I am ashamed of the choice

John Reid senior is there in my side. I dont think Jr has a place in the side.

Yes I would have included Donnelly but for his having played just 7 Tests and doing nothing of note in the first three. His only Test century was a brilliant double century at Lord's in 1949 but England attack was woeful. They opened with Bailey as the strike bowler and he was making his debut in that series !. His partner was Clifford Gladwin whom not many people have heard of. At first change they had Bill Edrich known mainly for his batting. The other bowlers were Hollies, Compton and Young. Not very impressive - the attack in that test I mean.

You may have a point about not including a pure spinner if none is good enough. We have an all rounder in Reid who bowled leg spin and maybe another pacer like Collinge or Motz or even young (when I saw him in his debut series in India) Bruce Taylor.

[Flem274*]

Fair enough about Donnelly, I mainly include him on accounts of how good he was by other people, along with his record. Fleming is a good choice for number five, very good player of spin and after his technical changes around 2000 became a much better player, even managed to improve that conversion rate.

But that conversion rate is what worries me. Imo he could get to fifty against most attacks, he was almost impossible to get rid of when in form until he got past his favourite number. But the problem is if disaster struck the top order (and in test series against other all time elevens that would happen at some point) his fifty and out might not be enough. You could almost argue Nathan Astle's all or nothing could be better, because he could put NZ right back in the game if he got going (though my personal choice would be Donnelly, and probably JF Reid and Andrew Jones ahead of Fleming).

Vettori is a hero, no denying but I agree, there is no place for the soldier in the side unless he plays at six, which you could argue he could do if a Reid or a Cairns got injured, because he's the type of batsman that could fight NZ out of hell (and actualy get some help from the other end in that team too). I'd include him on a turner, because he's still capable of doing damage on turning pitches but if it were a home game or somewhere liek SA or Aussie, I'd be stacking the seamers personally.

Like the team as a whole, though its possibly light on bowling.