Should Alistair Cook have a place cemented in the England team?

[PhoenixFire]

Up until before this series, nobody had ever really questioned his place at the top of the order for England, but after this series, I think his place has come under a lot of question.

Obviously he is a very talented player with a lot of potential, but do you think that England should persist with him and for how long? He could well end up being one of the great England players.

[Marcuss]

I disagree that his place was not under question prior to this series. In the immediate build up to the series nobody really questioned his place due to the fact he was doing well and there is a lack of quality alternatives.
However, it is not too long ago that some people were voicing serious concerns about his performances and his place within the team. IIRC it was around the time he hit 8 consecutive test 50s or something of the like, where he was heavily critcised throughout a considerable period of time where he failed to convert.

Now to answer the question itself, personally I'd persist with him. his performances have been adequate, not spectacular but good enough to keep him in the team. Michael Carberry has just had a pretty good season with the bat, which was brought to a premature end due to injury, Rob Key has been mentioned with regards to England squads over the last few years so there are now serious competitors for Cook's spot at the top of the order. IMO one of which will be on the plane to SA alongside Strauss and Cook.
On a different not it may not be the worst idea in the world to bring in another opener and move Cook to 3. I've seen the idea mentioned elsewhere on the forum, it has some merit in that he's had success there in the past. However, it's still not the answer for my money.

[kp4captain]

Yes I'm a big fan of him.
He is the 2nd best we've got (after Strauss) and is still averaging 40+
I think he has developed his game since his introduction, he has learned more aggresive strokes particularly off the spinners, he has developed a slog sweep.
Going through his dismissalls in the Ashes;
Cardiff 1st innings: A good catch from Hussey in the gulley for 10 off Hilfenhaus, on other days the fielder wouldn't have caught it
2nd innings:Missed a straight ball from Johnson, plumb LBW for 6

Lords 1st innings: Yet again simply missed a straight one from Johnson, however he had compiled a 96 at a fair strike rate of 64
2nd innings: This time fell over a Hauritz spinner and departed lbw for 32, again a good strike rate of 76 when England needed quick runs

Edgbaston 1st innings: 4th ball duck from Siddle fishing outside off stump

Headingly 1st innings: Again caught in the slips, but this was a decent ball from Stuart Clark, he went for 30 this time
2nd innings: Gone for 30 again nicking to Haddin, off a great outswinger from Mitchell Johnson

The Oval 1st innings: caught in the slips again off Siddle for 10, a decent ball but could have been played better
2nd innings: Caught off the slip from the spinner for 9

Overall there is only really two ways Cook gets out, leg before or caught in the slips. People say he has a weakness on that line of 4th stump just outside off, but he has recieved some good balls this year and as far as i can remember was never dropped, or got away with bad umpire decisions. I agree one 50 in 9 innings is not good enough, but the thing that concerns me is that 7 of the 9 innings he fell before Strauss. The only exceptions were both innings of Headingly when he was the main resisitance of the top 5. This puts a lot of pressure on Strauss, who in his current form relishes the pressure and responsibility, but when roles are reversed I agree Cook would have to improve as Strauss is seeing him though at the moment. I know its a while away but looking into that 1st test in South Africa I would like to see:

Strauss
Cook
Pietersen
Bell/Collingwood
Trott
Prior
Broad

Or of course you could play both Bell and Colly with a 4 man bowling attack.
My overall opinion is that the openers have developed a good relationship and would not tinker with it while the middle order is even more inconsistent

[BoyBrumby]

Averages 52.55 @ #3.

Pretty small sample size, admittedly, but given the problems we've had there it might be worth considering moving him back down.

[GIMH]

Yeah, i semi-advocated moving him down there recently, he certainly did play well there early in his career. That was his 'honeymoon period' though, so to speak

[BoyBrumby]

Yeah and it would leave us needing another opener, which is a prob in itself. Although, I guess if Tres hadn't had his woes, Cook would've played most of his career at first drop.

Anyway, the boy's averaging over 42.5 from 48 tests and he's still not 25. I wouldn't be ditching him yet.

[tooextracool]

Originally Posted by BoyBrumby

Averages 52.55 @ #3.

Pretty small sample size, admittedly, but given the problems we've had there it might be worth considering moving him back down.

Cannot see how it would be much different given that those 12 knocks came before his technique had been exposed.

Whilst Cook hasn't been outright shocking to demand axing from the side, his technical issues extend all the way back to 2006/07 Ashes and little has been done to correct this. Even though his record his good, he's still been struggling against decent pace bowling sides on non-flat pitches. Some time on the sidelines would do him good, and we know hes far too good to be on the sidelines for very long.

[Jamee999]

Do we have two better opening batsmen?

[tooextracool]

Originally Posted by BoyBrumby

Yeah and it would leave us needing another opener, which is a prob in itself. Although, I guess if Tres hadn't had his woes, Cook would've played most of his career at first drop.

Anyway, the boy's averaging over 42.5 from 48 tests and he's still not 25. I wouldn't be ditching him yet.

4 tons and 5 50s against the hapless WI could only have boosted that record of his.

[Marcuss]

Originally Posted by Jamee999

Do we have two better opening batsmen?

Only need 1 tbh.

[Jamee999]

...no. If he's the second best opening batsman in the country, he should be in the team.

[Marcuss]

Originally Posted by Jamee999

...no. If he's the second best opening batsman in the country, he should be in the team.

O.I.C
My mistake. Misread it.

[BoyBrumby]

Originally Posted by tooextracool

4 tons and 5 50s against the hapless WI could only have boosted that record of his.

True enough, yeah, but his record against everyone bar Antipodean countries is very solid, actually.

[tooextracool]

Originally Posted by BoyBrumby

True enough, yeah, but his record against everyone bar Antipodean countries is very solid, actually.

It isnt which is why I said there isn't that much statistical evidence to back up dropping him, but he's not good enough to score a century on pitches that offer even the slightest bit for fast bowlers and its evident that hes scored the majority of his runs on flat, slow batting pitches where his technique has not been exposed.


You could also pick at his statistics and point out that if you take his debut test aside, his average against India hasn't really been very good and one could also point out that South Africa frequently bowled very short at him year to allow him to get 4 50s against them. However, the problem isn't really his record. Its the fact that his technique has remained the same for 3 years. Its all good saying, hes still 25 and has X number of centuries, but we've been using that as an excuse for his lack of progress for 3 years now. If he was in his 30s, I would very much doubt that he would still be in the side. I would still take him to SA, maybe even consider playing him in the first test, but its high time they took a backup opener and told him that he needs to step up if he wants to keep his place in the side.

[Jungle Jumbo]

Originally Posted by Jamee999

Do we have two better opening batsmen?

No. That Denly is being talked up so much despite being unable to get anywhere near Cook's Essex championship record is enough for me.

(Hopes he has the stats right...)