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As an ODI opener : Ganguly or Anwar ... AND WHY?

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
This may have been done before but I recently came across a blog by an Indian fan. He had drawn up an all time sub-continental side and as openers he chose Ganguly you partner Tendulkar instead of Anwar. Maybe he would have chosen Anwar if he (the blogger) was a Pakistani but that apart I find it an intriguing question.

There isn't much between them as can be seen from the stats below but I would love to know what people think. Here are a few ground rules and it would be great if people followed them.

1. This is not to fit him into an All Time sub-continental side so please DO NOT consider "long standing successful partnership with Tendulkar" as a criteria.
2. We are only looking at them as openers in ODI's so the choice has nothing to do with their overall caliber as batsmen but you may comment on their batting besides as opener as long as the choice is not based on that.
3. Fielding is not criteria nor is bowling ability. This is purely about batting.
4. You can use additional stats to support your argument.

I am not making this a poll because I am not interested in knowing the numbers of votes for each as much as the arguments for and against :)

Code:
[B]Player        	Anwar	Ganguly[/B]

ODI'd        	247	311
Inns          	244	300
Not Outs	19	23
Aggregate	8824	11363
Average    	39.24	41.02[
Highest     	194	183
50+           	63	94
100+         	20	22
Ducks       	15	16
Scoring Rate	80.67	73.71
Inns/50+	3.87	3.19
Inns/100	12.2	13.6

Opener-Ins	220	236
Opener-NO	16	16
Opener-Agg	8156	9146
Opener-Avg	39.98	41.57
Opener-50+	57	77
Opener-100+	20	19
Opener I/50+	3.86	3.06
Opener-I/100	11	12.42
Opener-Srate	79.93	73.59
Opener -4's	866	935
Opener -6's	88	139
There isn't too much that separates them in the stats at first sight though one can pick a few odd things.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
A lot of Ganguly's 100s came from 98-2000 I believe, when he was supreme. I think in that period, he is clearly better than Anwar, but overall I think Anwar snares him by a bit.

They both ****ed up in WC finals vs. Australia though. :ph34r:

Anwar chose to change his grip in the 99 Final when he was firing. Chops on next ball.

Sourav sent Australia in on a flat track in 03 based on the fear from the previous collapse earlier in the WC.
 

subshakerz

International Coach
I give Anwar a slight edge as a one day player, and a notable edge as a test player. He was slightly more aggressive when in top form IMO.
 

Top_Cat

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Wow, tough choice. Both glorious through the off-side, Anwar better on the leg. M'thinks Anwar was slightly the better big match player so I'd give it to him. Just.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
I took some more stats (performance against non-minnows). For this I took away all innings against the non-Test sides, Zimbabwe and Bangladesh; amazingly the figures remain very similar.

Of course, these are all figures as opener.

Code:
[B]Player	Innings	Runs	Avg	50+	100+	Strike Rate[/B]

Anwar	191	7023	38.6	49	18	79.7

Ganguly	188	7038	39.5	59	14	73.1
Ganguly crosses fifty more often but Anwar scores a hundred more regularly and Ganguly continues to lag 6.5 runs per 100 balls behind on strike rate.

Break those figures up further countrywise and you find that both have a problem against Australia while Anwar also has a poor showing against South Africa. However against all other teams Anwar is consistently in the forties.

Saeed Anwar
Code:
[B]Grouping	Inns	Runs	HS	Ave	SR	100	50+[/B]

v South Africa	22	373	42	[B][COLOR="DarkRed"]16.95	61.24	0	0[/COLOR][/B]
v Australia	26	634	104*	[B][COLOR="DarkRed"]25.36	73.21	1	1[/COLOR][/B]
v England	10	434	77	43.4	80.51	0	4
v India       	45	1940	194	44.09	89.98	4	12
v West Indies	12	486	131	44.18	72.32	2	4
v New Zealand	29	1157	113*	44.5	76.06	4	10
v Sri Lanka	47	1999	126	45.43	81.52	7	18

[B]Overall      	191	7023	194	38.59	79.67	18	49[/B]
Saurav Ganguly
Code:
[B]Grouping	Inns	Runs	HS	Ave	SR	100	50[/B]
							
v Australia	24	558	100	[B][COLOR="DarkRed"]23.25	63.69[/COLOR][/B]	1	4
v England	21	730	117*	36.5	78.15	1	6
v New Zealand	27	1027	153*	39.5	73.88	3	9
v Pakistan	36	1346	141	39.58	71.36	2	11
v Sri Lanka	33	1227	183	39.58	72.68	4	10
v South Africa	25	1135	141*	49.34	77	3	9
v West Indies	22	1015	98	50.75	73.39	0	10
							
[B]Overall      	188	7038	183	39.5	73.10	14	59[/B]
 
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Migara

Cricketer Of The Year
Anwar had the edge IMO. He was not troubled by the short stuff as Ganguly (seen from the test experiance), although Anwar played most of his cricket in a bouncer less era. But I would expect him to do better than Ganguly when fast bowlers have smelled blood.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Anwar. The SR's the key for me here given both have extremely similar outputs in terms of runs, particularly as the global SR during Ganguly's career would've been significantly higher than Anwar's given when Anwar retired.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Anwar had the edge IMO. He was not troubled by the short stuff as Ganguly (seen from the test experiance), although Anwar played most of his cricket in a bouncer less era. But I would expect him to do better than Ganguly when fast bowlers have smelled blood.
Anwar. The SR's the key for me here given both have extremely similar outputs in terms of runs, particularly as the global SR during Ganguly's career would've been significantly higher than Anwar's given when Anwar retired.
That appears to be conventional logic but interestingly Anwar had his worst experiences when playing in Australia and South Africa where the pacers normally would be expected to dominate. Have a look at their records as openers when playing in Australia and South Africa.

Code:
[B]Player	Inns	Runs	Ave	SR	100	50+[/B]

Anwar	40	780	[B][COLOR="DarkRed"]19.5	67.7	0	0[/COLOR][/B]

Ganguly	33	1033	32.3	72.2	3	6
 

Naumaan

First Class Debutant
Saeed Anwer, not cuz he was a Pakistani, but i guess he was more stylish than the ganguly, i might be wrong, cuz ganguly was also a good batsman
 

SirBloody Idiot

Cricketer Of The Year
Anwar. The SR's the key for me here given both have extremely similar outputs in terms of runs, particularly as the global SR during Ganguly's career would've been significantly higher than Anwar's given when Anwar retired.
Agreed with this. Also Anwar the better bloke, and I'm sure as **** not voting Ganguly. :p
 

bagapath

International Captain
both were very elegant to look at but anwar was even better than ganguly because he was more confident on the leg side compared to saurav.

also, the ability to score hundreds more frequently against big teams and a higher strike rate should definitely tilt it in anwar's favor. of course, saurav would definitely be remembered as one of the finest openers in limited overs cricket. but anwar is marginally better than him.
 
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SJS

Hall of Fame Member
For me it is very tight. I am not convinced with all of the arguments given here. I would still put it marginally for Anwar for the following reasons.
1. He had a more rounded and all round game than Ganguly.
2. His higher strike rate inspite of much fewer sixes shows a better stroke play and capacity to penetrate fields better.
3. He was the better runner between the wickets of the two.​

In Ganguly's favour I would put handling of spinners.

I think it heped Ganguly a lot to have someone as good as Sachin at the other end in that great opening partnership. He also had Sehwag for quite sometime. Anwar was less fortunate with great opening batsmen at the other end for a sustained partnership over years. That has to be an advantage for Ganguly.

Yes I would go for Anwar but its marginal.
 

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Would Ganguly have been more aggressive if he didn't have Tendulkar at the other end? You can't know the answer to that question, but I think even if he had been more aggressive, I would have to give it to Anwar. Tests and ODIs.
 

Xuhaib

International Coach
For me it is very tight. I am not convinced with all of the arguments given here. I would still put it marginally for Anwar for the following reasons.
1. He had a more rounded and all round game than Ganguly.
2. His higher strike rate inspite of much fewer sixes shows a better stroke play and capacity to penetrate fields better.
3. He was the better runner between the wickets of the two.​

In Ganguly's favour I would put handling of spinners.

I think it heped Ganguly a lot to have someone as good as Sachin at the other end in that great opening partnership. He also had Sehwag for quite sometime. Anwar was less fortunate with great opening batsmen at the other end for a sustained partnership over years. That has to be an advantage for Ganguly.

Yes I would go for Anwar but its marginal.
Anwar had Sohail who was sure not even 1/10 of Sachin but still complimented Anwar superbly.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Anwar had Sohail who was sure not even 1/10 of Sachin but still complimented Anwar superbly.
Sure but its not the same thing as having Tendulkar.

- Ganguly and Tendulkar have 136 partnerships at 49.3 each.
- Twenty one century partnerships.
- Ten above 150.
- Two above 250 !
- He had another five century partnerships with Sehwag with two of them in the 190's.​

Amir Sohail and Aanwr had 73 partnerships at 39.1 each with three century partnerships.
 

asty80

School Boy/Girl Captain
Gangs

I'm going to go against the flow and put my hand up for Ganguly.

With Ganguly, its the complete package in ODI's. His batting was best suited for this format, he could hit boundaries when the ball was new and fielders were in the circle, and in the middle overs , he could tonk the spinners to 'Ganguly's roof' (as Tony Greig said put it succintly in one of his mayhems in Sharjah). He didnt have to worry about bouncers too much.

Also, like Imran Khan for Pak, Ganguly will always be more than his batting. He gave iron to the side and his confidence was greater when he was captain. So there are some intangibles there in play.

Anwar was always a thorn in India's flesh, but I dont think the aussies or SA were running scared of him. He seemed to be a great player only against very few countries. I'm sure averages might show a different picture, but to me, intangibles always play a part.
 

Cruxdude

International Debutant
I always assumed Anwar was a better player but your stats have caught me by surprise. Will go for Anwar anyways.
 
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