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Thread: Shakib Al Hasan vs The Great All Rounders

  1. #256
    School Boy/Girl Cricketer SillyCowCorner1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_mister View Post
    Shakib had no good bowlers to share wickets with.
    Over the course of his career, there has been a few guys who had sparks of bada$$ery when they entered the cricketing world, but they couldn't last. Guys like Suhrawadi, Gazi, Robiul. You don't hear of them anymore. Shakib was the one who was world-class in that team, that is why he remained and took wickets. Now, they are more balanced in their bowling department; Mehedi, Mustafizur, and even Taijul. Much better than what they has a few years ago.

    Now, Shakib is improving in his batting because he is more liberal in the bowling department.
    Last edited by SillyCowCorner1; 20-03-2017 at 04:10 PM.
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  2. #257
    Cricket Web Staff Member Black_Warrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinzan View Post
    Agree and whilst it looks amazing scoring a double hundred in NZ, that was honestly one of the luckiest innings I've ever seen in any form of cricket...

    Everything went for him that day.
    Pretty much any batsman who scores a hundred enjoys luck of some kind. The problem with these arguments is that we almost always apply them selectively.
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  3. #258
    Cricket Web Staff Member Black_Warrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverratedSanity View Post
    40 and 33 is already an insane overall record though. It is an utterly unique resume where he's consistently delivered for the team in both disciplines.

    Agree 100% on YK
    Numbers are great. But not enough to make up for the fact that Bangladesh games don't make news and performances don't get the same attention and coverage.
    Shakib has a 5 wicket haul in England, a 6 wicket and 5 haul in South Africa
    Century and double century in New Zealand
    Century and 6 wicket haul against Pakistan in the same game

    No one remembers or cares.

    Stokes averages 33 with the bat and 34 with the ball.

    If you ask anyone today who is the best allrounder in the world, and if we are being honest, the first name we'll think of is Ben Stokes. We just remember more of the games Stokes has played in his much shorter career because they were given more coverage, attention, and highlighted far far more.

    Shakib never got an opportunity to even play a test in Australia. That's not his fault. But it will be held against him. In what's left of his career, he is unlikely to play more than 2 tests in Australia, and maybe a handful in England and India.

    Stokes already has 5 tests in India, will have 10 tests in Australia by the end of the year.

    This is why Shakib will be an afterthought when talking about Great All Rounders, through no fault of his own.
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  4. #259
    International Debutant Coronis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Warrior View Post
    Numbers are great. But not enough to make up for the fact that Bangladesh games don't make news and performances don't get the same attention and coverage.
    Shakib has a 5 wicket haul in England, a 6 wicket and 5 haul in South Africa
    Century and double century in New Zealand
    Century and 6 wicket haul against Pakistan in the same game

    No one remembers or cares.

    Stokes averages 33 with the bat and 34 with the ball.

    If you ask anyone today who is the best allrounder in the world, and if we are being honest, the first name we'll think of is Ben Stokes. We just remember more of the games Stokes has played in his much shorter career because they were given more coverage, attention, and highlighted far far more.

    Shakib never got an opportunity to even play a test in Australia. That's not his fault. But it will be held against him. In what's left of his career, he is unlikely to play more than 2 tests in Australia, and maybe a handful in England and India.

    Stokes already has 5 tests in India, will have 10 tests in Australia by the end of the year.

    This is why Shakib will be an afterthought when talking about Great All Rounders, through no fault of his own.
    Hopefully he has a massive series in Australia. Can you imagine if Bangladesh won a test in Australia? There's your coverage. (unlikely I know, but anything is possible)
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  5. #260
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Would put them ahead of Sri Lanka.
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  6. #261
    Cricket Web Staff Member Black_Warrior's Avatar
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    That would put both of them ahead of Australia

  7. #262
    School Boy/Girl Cricketer SillyCowCorner1's Avatar
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    In order for Bangladesh to win a test match in Australia, their batsmen have to bat out of their skins against the bounce and pace of the well-oiled Australian team that plays a far greater # of tests per year than Bangladesh. Shakib will have to do what Tom Brady did in the Souper Bowl. Simply as that. Period.

  8. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by burgey View Post
    would put them ahead of sri lanka.
    die
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  9. #264
    International Captain viriya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_mister View Post
    Shakib had no good bowlers to share wickets with.
    He also had no good bowlers to build a bowling partnership with.

    You sacrifice average for wickets. And he has a decent bowling average.
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  10. #265
    International Coach zorax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by viriya View Post
    He also had no good bowlers to build a bowling partnership with.

    You sacrifice average for wickets. And he has a decent bowling average.
    Well not quite. A 4/150 is a lot more common than a 4/200, but a 1/50 is more common that either.

    Shakib has a lot of those 4/150 spells that give him a decent average, and in recent games he's been returning more 1/50 kinda spells because now he has other more potent bowlers to share wickets with. i'd say being the lone man in the attack actually helped his average more than it hurt it. Not where he isn't the lone man he finds himself being the 2nd spinner/3rd bowler holding kind of role. Which suits him and the team perfectly, but I think will make his average look worse rather than better.
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  11. #266
    International Captain viriya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Warrior View Post
    Numbers are great. But not enough to make up for the fact that Bangladesh games don't make news and performances don't get the same attention and coverage.
    Shakib has a 5 wicket haul in England, a 6 wicket and 5 haul in South Africa
    Century and double century in New Zealand
    Century and 6 wicket haul against Pakistan in the same game

    No one remembers or cares.

    Stokes averages 33 with the bat and 34 with the ball.

    If you ask anyone today who is the best allrounder in the world, and if we are being honest, the first name we'll think of is Ben Stokes. We just remember more of the games Stokes has played in his much shorter career because they were given more coverage, attention, and highlighted far far more.

    Shakib never got an opportunity to even play a test in Australia. That's not his fault. But it will be held against him. In what's left of his career, he is unlikely to play more than 2 tests in Australia, and maybe a handful in England and India.

    Stokes already has 5 tests in India, will have 10 tests in Australia by the end of the year.

    This is why Shakib will be an afterthought when talking about Great All Rounders, through no fault of his own.
    I would never pick Stokes over Shakib. You are showing your big-3 bias here. An informed cricket fan should know Shakib >> Stokes.

  12. #267
    International Captain TheJediBrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorax View Post
    Well not quite. A 4/150 is a lot more common than a 4/200, but a 1/50 is more common that either.

    Shakib has a lot of those 4/150 spells that give him a decent average, and in recent games he's been returning more 1/50 kinda spells because now he has other more potent bowlers to share wickets with. i'd say being the lone man in the attack actually helped his average more than it hurt it. Not where he isn't the lone man he finds himself being the 2nd spinner/3rd bowler holding kind of role. Which suits him and the team perfectly, but I think will make his average look worse rather than better.
    I think completely the opposite of this tbh

    Better other bowlers in team = less total wickets but better average. Not sure how you figure 4/150 gives someone a decent average.

  13. #268
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Warrior View Post
    Pretty much any batsman who scores a hundred enjoys luck of some kind. The problem with these arguments is that we almost always apply them selectively.
    Thing is I don't usually pick on lucky hundreds because I agree most invariably have some luck somewhere, but this one was something else..

  14. #269
    International Captain viriya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorax View Post
    Well not quite. A 4/150 is a lot more common than a 4/200, but a 1/50 is more common that either.

    Shakib has a lot of those 4/150 spells that give him a decent average, and in recent games he's been returning more 1/50 kinda spells because now he has other more potent bowlers to share wickets with. i'd say being the lone man in the attack actually helped his average more than it hurt it. Not where he isn't the lone man he finds himself being the 2nd spinner/3rd bowler holding kind of role. Which suits him and the team perfectly, but I think will make his average look worse rather than better.
    He could also just be relatively out of form in his bowling. That might be something to to do a proper analysis on. Peer bowling attack quality vs bowling average/number of wickets

  15. #270
    International Captain viriya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinzan View Post
    Thing is I don't usually pick on lucky hundreds because I agree most invariably have some luck somewhere, but this one was something else..
    Chandimal recently had an ATG innings vs India where he gave 6+ chances.. he won SL the match. No one cares about the chances anymore.

    Players like Shakib seem.to be judged on a different plane cos they play for a historically weak team. Almost every great innings has at least 1-2 chances given so imo this is a weak argument.
    Last edited by viriya; 21-03-2017 at 08:11 PM.
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