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Thread: Leading Oz coaches refuse to teach doosra

  1. #16
    International Captain Migara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaminda_00 View Post
    How can they teach something in the first place, none of them know how to bowl?
    Good one!
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaminda_00 View Post
    How can they teach something in the first place, none of them know how to bowl?
    This.

  3. #18
    International Coach pup11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaminda_00 View Post
    How can they teach something in the first place, none of them know how to bowl?
    Exactly...

    To be very honest its mindset like this that has created such a lack of good spin bowlers in Australia, people like John Davison (FFS), are teaching spin bowling to aspiring spin bowlers.

    Dean Jones recently said that CA should seriously think about hiring people like Saqlain and ask him to coach young Aussie spin bowlers, and that's definitely something that should be done, a lot of spin bowlers in Australia hardly know much about their trade, because most of them aren't being coached by the right people.

    I think all these "spin mentors" really need to wake up and smell the coffee, they need to realise that's its year 2009, and every finger-spinner around the world is either bowling a doosra or trying to develop one, because since the pitches are flat like ****, they know they won't last long without having any variations.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by pup11 View Post
    Exactly...

    To be very honest its mindset like this that has created such a lack of good spin bowlers in Australia, people like John Davison (FFS), are teaching spin bowling to aspiring spin bowlers.

    Dean Jones recently said that CA should seriously think about hiring people like Saqlain and ask him to coach young Aussie spin bowlers, and that's definitely something that should be done, a lot of spin bowlers in Australia hardly know much about their trade, because most of them aren't being coached by the right people.

    I think all these "spin mentors" really need to wake up and smell the coffee, they need to realise that's its year 2009, and every finger-spinner around the world is either bowling a doosra or trying to develop one, because since the pitches are flat like ****, they know they won't last long without having any variations.
    Three spinners with the most test wickets in 2009? Swann, Shakib & Harris. All seem to be coping pretty well without one, then.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Three spinners with the most test wickets in 2009? Swann, Shakib & Harris. All seem to be coping pretty well without one, then.
    Two of them being left armers and hence cannot bowl the doosra. The third one's presence denotes absence of cricket played by the usual suspects and the general deficiency of solid off spinners of late.

  6. #21
    Englishman BoyBrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pigeon View Post
    Two of them being left armers and hence cannot bowl the doosra. The third one's presence denotes absence of cricket played by the usual suspects and the general deficiency of solid off spinners of late.
    Surely an SLA bowler could bowl a doosra? Whatever you might like to call it, the delivery would just be the mirror image of an off-spinner's version. Pretty sure Panesar has spoken about practicing one in the nets at least. Chinamen bowlers' wrong 'uns are called just that, so I guess their orthodox brethren's ball that goes the other way might just as welll be called a doosra.

    Regardless, my point still stands, it is possible for finger spinners to make a go of things without the delivery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBrumby View Post
    Surely an SLA bowler could bowl a doosra? Whatever you might like to call it, the delivery would just be the mirror image of an off-spinner's version. Pretty sure Panesar has spoken about practicing one in the nets at least. Chinamen bowlers' wrong 'uns are called just that, so I guess their orthodox brethren's ball that goes the other way might just as welll be called a doosra.

    Regardless, my point still stands, it is possible for finger spinners to make a go of things without the delivery.
    Classical off spin is no way the mirror image of slow left arm. Just like LHB is no mirror image of RHB. I am not pretending to be the greatest expert of spin bowling in the world. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable could step up to fill in the reasons.

    And I do not agree with your reasoning of "If SLAs can, surely offies too can without the doosra". First of all how many SLAs are there in the history of test cricket who can be termed as world class? (say have taken above 250 test wickets at a good average?) That in itself should show the longetivity issues of LSAs.

  8. #23
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Left-arm fingerspin has always been constrained by the same limitations as right-arm fingerspin. Given a non-turning surface, neither will have any effect against quality batting.

    However, given a turning surface and (and this would be regarded as the standard) a surfeit of RHBs, a left-arm fingerspinner would generally be a decent bit more effective than a right-arm fingerspinner. This is the reason why, among the groups of fingerspinners who've had regular access to turning decks (ie, generally England before 1970, and India\Sri Lanka\sometimes-Pakistan), left-armers have generally abounded more than right-armers.

    Almost all the few good ones from elsewhere (Tayfield from South Africa, Gibbs from West Indies, Johnson from Australia, for example) have been right-armers. Quality left-arm fingerspinners from any of the non-subcontinental countries (and England up to 1970) can probably be counted without too many counters: Vettori for example, or (briefly) Valentine.

    As for the Doosra, any fingerspinner can bowl it. Same way no left-armer has yet bowled wristspin to a remotely notable standard, no left-arm fingerspinner has yet produced a Doosra (so far only Saqlain and Harbhajan of those with any decent skill have produced it of the right-armers, let's remember). But as long as they keep trying, it'll happen eventually.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pigeon View Post
    Two of them being left armers and hence cannot bowl the doosra. The third one's presence denotes absence of cricket played by the usual suspects and the general deficiency of solid off spinners of late.
    Wtf are you talking about? Of course a left arm spinner can bowl a doosra.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Left-arm fingerspin has always been constrained by the same limitations as right-arm fingerspin. Given a non-turning surface, neither will have any effect against quality batting.

    However, given a turning surface and (and this would be regarded as the standard) a surfeit of RHBs, a left-arm fingerspinner would generally be a decent bit more effective than a right-arm fingerspinner. This is the reason why, among the groups of fingerspinners who've had regular access to turning decks (ie, generally England before 1970, and India\Sri Lanka\sometimes-Pakistan), left-armers have generally abounded more than right-armers.

    Almost all the few good ones from elsewhere (Tayfield from South Africa, Gibbs from West Indies, Johnson from Australia, for example) have been right-armers. Quality left-arm fingerspinners from any of the non-subcontinental countries (and England up to 1970) can probably be counted without too many counters: Vettori for example, or (briefly) Valentine.

    As for the Doosra, any fingerspinner can bowl it. Same way no left-armer has yet bowled wristspin to a remotely notable standard, no left-arm fingerspinner has yet produced a Doosra (so far only Saqlain and Harbhajan of those with any decent skill have produced it of the right-armers, let's remember). But as long as they keep trying, it'll happen eventually.
    Could be slightly OT, but I am surprised and actually chuffed at the stock of fingerspinners that Bangladesh seems to throw up regularly. Two or three among them, namely Shakib Al Hasan, Mahmudullah, Razzak etc can be world class should they do remain consistent.

  11. #26
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Left-arm fingerspin has always been constrained by the same limitations as right-arm fingerspin. Given a non-turning surface, neither will have any effect against quality batting.

    However, given a turning surface and (and this would be regarded as the standard) a surfeit of RHBs, a left-arm fingerspinner would generally be a decent bit more effective than a right-arm fingerspinner. This is the reason why, among the groups of fingerspinners who've had regular access to turning decks (ie, generally England before 1970, and India\Sri Lanka\sometimes-Pakistan), left-armers have generally abounded more than right-armers.

    Almost all the few good ones from elsewhere (Tayfield from South Africa, Gibbs from West Indies, Johnson from Australia, for example) have been right-armers. Quality left-arm fingerspinners from any of the non-subcontinental countries (and England up to 1970) can probably be counted without too many counters: Vettori for example, or (briefly) Valentine.

    As for the Doosra, any fingerspinner can bowl it. Same way no left-armer has yet bowled wristspin to a remotely notable standard, no left-arm fingerspinner has yet produced a Doosra (so far only Saqlain and Harbhajan of those with any decent skill have produced it of the right-armers, let's remember). But as long as they keep trying, it'll happen eventually.


    whazzup?



    say what?



    flipping heck...



    I say!



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    Last edited by Matt79; 28-07-2009 at 06:23 AM.
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  12. #27
    Hall of Fame Member chaminda_00's Avatar
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    lol left armers can't bowl the doorsa. I guess you have never seen Hearth bowl then?
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  13. #28
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post


    whazzup?



    say what?



    flipping heck...



    I say!
    Hogg was hopeless, Sobers was principally a seam bowler (like Johnny Wardle it may have been no coincidence that one of the few decent practitioners used it as a change-up) and Adams, well, he was even more hopeless than Hogg. What's more he couldn't bowl the standard wristspinner's Break delivery, his stock-ball was the Googly. Who's the fourth pic of?

    And as for Michael Bevan who you edited in, the inclusion of a batsman whose bowling was about as inaccurate as anyone I've ever seen says it all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Who's the fourth pic of?
    Looks curiously like Alan Stanford.

  15. #30
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaminda_00 View Post
    lol left armers can't bowl the doorsa. I guess you have never seen Hearth bowl then?
    So Herath does bowl it? I've never seen him bowl but his change-up ball always seemed from what it was described as to be Doosra-esque.

    Shame he hasn't done better through his career really.

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