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*Official* South Africa in England Thread

Rik

Rik

Cricketer Of The Year
Squad for England vs SA 1st Test

It looks ok although Kirtley will not get a go even though I think he would be a better choice than either Gough or Harmison. As for McGrath being picked, ok he wasn't going to be dropped and he's not done anything wrong but who would you pick? An in-form Graham Thorpe, one of England's best batsmen in the last 10 years, or Anthony McGrath who scored 2 50s against Zimbabwe and had a very ordinary time in the ODIs? You allways need to play your best side against the top teams, and in my opinion, class should have won here over the need to be fair. Did Mark Waugh deserve to be dropped by the Australian Selectors with his record? Nope. Life isn't fair.

Just my views mind :)
 
R

Rich2001

International Captain
Re: Squad for England vs SA 1st Test

Rik said:
It looks ok although Kirtley will not get a go even though I think he would be a better choice than either Gough or Harmison. As for McGrath being picked, ok he wasn't going to be dropped and he's not done anything wrong but who would you pick? An in-form Graham Thorpe, one of England's best batsmen in the last 10 years, or Anthony McGrath who scored 2 50s against Zimbabwe and had a very ordinary time in the ODIs? You allways need to play your best side against the top teams, and in my opinion, class should have won here over the need to be fair. Did Mark Waugh deserve to be dropped by the Australian Selectors with his record? Nope. Life isn't fair.

Just my views mind :)
Click to expand...
First although Thorpe might have been a better choice, McGrath would (and should) have felt very hard done by to be dropped.

Second intresting on the M Waugh subject, the reason he was dropped was on a horrible run of form not his record... However all I will say is has he been missed what-so-ever, the answer is no... So although a decision that was very split, it hasn't effected the team performance at all.
 
Rik

Rik

Cricketer Of The Year
Fair enough point Rich but who would you pick out of McGrath or Thorpe? Life isn't fair, you've got to play your strongest side against the top teams. Being nice and winning doesn't go together really. I know McGrath doesn't deserve to be dropped but how much do the selectors want to win this? Do they want to win this or do they want to sacrifice valuable runs in the name of looking like nice blokes by picking an inferior player? They've found out that McGrath can score runs against a weak team, so why not bring in someone who has scored runs against the best teams in the world consistantly and keep McGrath for when a vacancy comes up in the batting order? Strength in depth.
 
S

Swanny

School Boy/Girl Captain
But Thorpe was out of order in what happened last summer/winter. So he had a few personal problems, lets be honest so do most of the population. Especially (i'm told this one!!) once you get married. However most people have no choice but to soldier on through, they can't quit there job for 7 months. Yes Thorpe is a quality player and given the choice between him and Key he'd get in everytime but lets be honest he left them in the lurch, and McGrath is playing well. We don't know whats happened behind closed doors, frankly so much probably happens in dressing rooms that may never come out. If Thorpe comes in after leaving in Australia ahead of McGrath who got runs against Zimbabwe(he could only bat against what was there!) there could be unrest and disharmony. Vaughan hadn't a great first class record before going to South Africa and look what happened to him. If we lose a few games and don't get runs then yeah lets look at Thorpe until then, for me its McGrath.
 
marc71178

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
And Kirtley a better choice than Gough or Harmison - I know you don't like Harmison and even if he takes 10 or more in the match you'll still criticise him, but ahead of Gough?!
 
M

Mr. P

International Vice-Captain
Agreed, surely Gough would be the smart pick ahead of Kirtley, for obvious reasons.
 
S

Swanny

School Boy/Girl Captain
Dennis Lillee said in this months WCM that Harmisons was the future. A decent opinion i'd guess being a coach as well as one of the best fast bowlers ever. As a batsman who would you rather face, I know I wouldnt fancy Harmison at all. bowlers have to hunt in packs and Gough, Anderson, Harmison and Flintoff is a very decent bowling attack
 
Rik

Rik

Cricketer Of The Year
marc71178 said:
And Kirtley a better choice than Gough or Harmison - I know you don't like Harmison and even if he takes 10 or more in the match you'll still criticise him, but ahead of Gough?!
Click to expand...
Hahah Harmison take 10 in a match? :lol:

Marc you humour me too much! :lol:

Let's see if he can go for less than a ton against Smith, Gibbs, Kirsten et al first...

Yes and Gough too, 1-68 off 20 overs shouldn't equate to a re-call...
 
Rik

Rik

Cricketer Of The Year
Swanny said:
Dennis Lillee said in this months WCM that Harmisons was the future. A decent opinion i'd guess being a coach as well as one of the best fast bowlers ever. As a batsman who would you rather face, I know I wouldnt fancy Harmison at all. bowlers have to hunt in packs and Gough, Anderson, Harmison and Flintoff is a very decent bowling attack
Click to expand...
Lillee is famous for talking out of his arse. Harmison would be my favoured bowler to face:

Ball 1: Leave outside off - wide
Ball 2: Leave outside off - wide
Ball 3: Leave outside leg - wide

you get the picture...
 
Langeveldt

Langeveldt

Soutie
Rik said:
Lillee is famous for talking out of his arse. Harmison would be my favoured bowler to face:

Ball 1: Leave outside off - wide
Ball 2: Leave outside off - wide
Ball 3: Leave outside leg - wide

you get the picture...
Click to expand...

I thought it was a very good article until he started spouting rubbish about one of Englands worst pacemen for ages...
 
luckyeddie

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
Chances of Harmison taking 10 in a game? Not impossible.

Would any of you have ever given Dev a chance of picking up 10 in a game? (he nearly did it in an innings - against a South Africa team which was pretty good, too).

I would not pick Gough yet - there's no form to speak of in the longer game (unless someone can confirm that he was just 'going through the motions' against Durham).

Incidentally, Harmison picked up 3 more wickets than Gough in the game and was more economical.

Funny old game, isn't it?
 
marc71178

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Jacques Rudolph said:
Hmm, i am miffed, but we could go on forever about the England squad, so i wont.....
Click to expand...
So why are you miffed?

Who would you have selected, and what reason can you give for leaving out the people you leave out in order to select them?
 
marc71178

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Rik said:

Yes and Gough too, 1-68 off 20 overs shouldn't equate to a re-call...
Click to expand...

Right, so you base it on one game, rather than the fine form he showed in the 10 one Dayers, and the 200+ Test Wickets he's taken.

Who would the Springboks rather face, him or Kirtley?
 
Rik

Rik

Cricketer Of The Year
marc71178 said:
Right, so you base it on one game, rather than the fine form he showed in the 10 one Dayers, and the 200+ Test Wickets he's taken.

Who would the Springboks rather face, him or Kirtley?
Click to expand...
Kirtley has been one of the most consistant bowlers in England, and as for ODIs, you have said many times that you shouldn't read too much into them. He's also been out of the game 2 years with injury basically and he's had to change his action and there is no guarentee that he will be as potent in the longer form of the game again. Yeah fine he did well in the ODIs but it's a different kettle of fish, the batsmen have to score runs, all you need to do is get the ball in the right place. In Tests you need to work a batsman out. I think one, not very impressive, game is not enough to pick someone, remember his 200+ wickets count for nothing because he himself has said he's had to change a few things, he needs to now prove himself all over again.
 
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Rik

Rik

Cricketer Of The Year
luckyeddie said:
Chances of Harmison taking 10 in a game? Not impossible.

Would any of you have ever given Dev a chance of picking up 10 in a game? (he nearly did it in an innings - against a South Africa team which was pretty good, too).

I would not pick Gough yet - there's no form to speak of in the longer game (unless someone can confirm that he was just 'going through the motions' against Durham).

Incidentally, Harmison picked up 3 more wickets than Gough in the game and was more economical.

Funny old game, isn't it?
Click to expand...
Harmison has never taken 5 wickets in an innings in a Test, never taken 10 in a match for Durham (rarely even gets close to 5 in an innings for them too), also in a 5 man attack he would be hard pressed to get anywhere near 10 in a match.
 
PY

PY

International Coach
Most Englishmen have a bit of a soft spot for Gough don't they purely because he gives his absolute all and usually does well. You see every emotion that he is going through when he is playing and that appeals to people.

I think he should play, he looked right back to his best. Going past the outside edge (going past the outside edge of a defensive stroke is the same in either format) regularly and he looked quite fit as well.
 
marc71178

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
I would say that Gough lifts an International team with his mere prescence more than any other player.

Again, I ask who would you rather face - Kirtley or Gough?
 
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