***Official New Zealand Domestic Season Thread 2009/10

[SmityNZ]

For starters, he said he wasn't of FC standard - not 'yet to prove'. In any case, I dispute both. Better judges have picked him in NZ A - that is not somewhere you get picked when you're yet to even prove you're of FC standard.

And he's done nothing in FC cricket? Rubbish. Did you not read through my original comment?

I hear people all the time on talkback saying 'such and such should get a chance to prove himself' (ie Hay) and 'such and such national team didn't give *insertplayerhere* a real chance'. Then I read through stuff on here where people stick the knife straight away into players they have not once seen bowl live. That irks me.

 

[Flem274*]

For starters, he said he wasn't of FC standard - not 'yet to prove'. In any case, I dispute both. Better judges have picked him in NZ A - that is not somewhere you get picked when you're yet to even prove you're of FC standard.

And he's done nothing in FC cricket? Rubbish. Did you not read through my original comment?

I hear people all the time on talkback saying 'such and such should get a chance to prove himself' (ie Hay) and 'such and such national team didn't give *insertplayerhere* a real chance'. Then I read through stuff on here where people stick the knife straight away into players they have not once seen bowl live. That irks me.

Well he's not-yet. I said hoepfuly he does become FC standard. If what he's done so far makes him FC standard then well...

NZ A is quite often just players who have potential, not the absolute best FC performers. Thats why Te Ahu Davis, Hamish Bennet and to a lesser extent James McMillan have played for NZ A. I'd like it to be a genuine second team (with a few exceptions, e.g. I wouldn't pick Sinclair because of age, or Papps or Bell for other, ability related reasons) but the odd guy put in because he looks young and gun (e.g. if they chucked in Nick Beard) I have no complaints. Thats what they're doing with McClennaghan, they picked him based on what he could be rather than what he is currently, if that makes sense.

Btw, I don't disagree with you about talkback. Tbh they're all over the place, they'll say what you've quoted then next time someone gets a duck or bowls mildly poorly they'll be absolute crap etc. Hence you should stay here, you might not agree with everyone (in fact you won't, go pick a fight with the pommy Scaly Piscine about NZ) but most of the time we're at least consistent.

 

[Prince EWS]

And he's done nothing in FC cricket? Rubbish. Did you not read through my original comment?

Do you not know what First Class cricket actually is? Taking 32 wickets @ 47 and having never taken more than three in an innings is, really, nothing. Taking a hat-trick in a Twenty20 game is not First Class cricket. Getting selected for a team isn't actually doing anything - he got picked because someone thought he looked like he might do something, not because he actually had.

You don't prove yourself by looking like you might take wickets; you prove yourself by actually doing it.

Not denying he has potential, but so far he's proven absolutely nothing on performance.

 

[Prince EWS]

Well he's not-yet. I said hoepfuly he does become FC standard. If what he's done so far makes him FC standard then well...

NZ A is quite often just players who have potential, not the absolute best FC performers. Thats why Te Ahu Davis, Hamish Bennet and to a lesser extent James McMillan have played for NZ A. I'd like it to be a genuine second team (with a few exceptions, e.g. I wouldn't pick Sinclair because of age, or Papps or Bell for other, ability related reasons) but the odd guy put in because he looks young and gun (e.g. if they chucked in Nick Beard) I have no complaints. Thats what they're doing with McClennaghan, they picked him based on what he could be rather than what he is currently, if that makes sense.

Btw, I don't disagree with you about talkback. Tbh they're all over the place, they'll say what you've quoted then next time someone gets a duck or bowls mildly poorly they'll be absolute crap etc. Hence you should stay here, you might not agree with everyone (in fact you won't, go pick a fight with the pommy Scaly Piscine about NZ) but most of the time we're at least consistent.

Gotta say though, actually getting a little bit sick of agreeing with you all the time. Might start a Merchant Appreciation Society just so people can tell the difference between us.

 

[Polo23]

McClenaghan started of his FC career incredibly poorly and because of that was in and out of the side. He got more consistent last season, towards the latter half at least and seemed to be taking regular wickets at the top of the order. He looked pretty handy when I saw him on TV in a T20, good pace and bowled pretty accurately. Had a tendency to whack it in half way down though. His line was fine however.

I think he deserved a contract, he's better than most of the chumps around NZ domestic who call themselves bowlers.

I was baffled when I saw Hay didn't get a contract. Our best domestic batsman for 2 seasons, on the verge of NZ selection, has 1 mediocre season (though I still think he hit a ton or two towards the back end) and he's chopped. Crazy.

 

[Athlai]

Why Wellington didn't secure a middle order batsman blows my mind.

 

[trapol]

can people please stop the Greg Hay talk. Better than Marshall? Are you serious? You cannot have seen these two play much.
I will repeat myself... Hay scored runs only because nobody knew him or how he played. It is extremely common knowledge now that Hay cant score a run that isnt behind point or to third man and thats why you see him fail.
Teams block off this area and not only cant he score but it leads to his dismissal as well.
He is a solid player but its an indication on how ridiculously stupid our current selectors are that he was even close to NZ selection. ditto for Boult/Williamson/Diamanti/Broom even Tuffey although im less concerned about his selection as he's proven before he can win games for NZ at the international level. But these guys must score heavily for 2 or more seasons plus NZA before they come into consideration, unless of course poor form from the incumbants/injuries crop up.

Same with Mitchell just let him bowl for 4 years before people even think of a spot in the BCs. He hasnt a clue how to bowl yet nor about playing for 6 months let alone a year. Its called tim to develop.
Please people we very very rarely have people come into top flight cricket and succeed straight away and these guys need to be left alone to learn the game

 

[SmityNZ]

Do you not know what First Class cricket actually is? Taking 32 wickets @ 47 and having never taken more than three in an innings is, really, nothing. Taking a hat-trick in a Twenty20 game is not First Class cricket. Getting selected for a team isn't actually doing anything - he got picked because someone thought he looked like he might do something, not because he actually had.

You don't prove yourself by looking like you might take wickets; you prove yourself by actually doing it.

Not denying he has potential, but so far he's proven absolutely nothing on performance.

Thank you for proving you know neither the location of arse nor elbow when it comes to the first-class scene. The hat-trick was in a first-class game against Canterbury, not a Twenty20. Look it up, then once again ask me if I know what first-class cricket is. I'm more than aware.

Look, my issue was not whether McClenaghan is a proven first-class player, a up-and-comer or an astronaut. It was that I get sick when I see people sticking the knives into young cricketers who haven't had enough time to learn their trade and become the cricketers that you immediately demand they become.

I agree with a lot the last guy said and also Polo23 made a good balanced comment away.

I don't know about that 4-year suggestion but spot on with the rest of it. He'll learn to be consistent, he'll learn how to manage his body, he'll learn everything it takes to be a good bowler etc etc. He's a rare talent yet some people want to call him rubbish already.

 

[Flem274*]

Why Wellington didn't secure a middle order batsman blows my mind.

Crook?

 

[Flem274*]

can people please stop the Greg Hay talk. Better than Marshall? Are you serious? You cannot have seen these two play much.
I will repeat myself... Hay scored runs only because nobody knew him or how he played. It is extremely common knowledge now that Hay cant score a run that isnt behind point or to third man and thats why you see him fail.
Teams block off this area and not only cant he score but it leads to his dismissal as well.
He is a solid player but its an indication on how ridiculously stupid our current selectors are that he was even close to NZ selection. ditto for Boult/Williamson/Diamanti/Broom even Tuffey although im less concerned about his selection as he's proven before he can win games for NZ at the international level. But these guys must score heavily for 2 or more seasons plus NZA before they come into consideration, unless of course poor form from the incumbants/injuries crop up.

Same with Mitchell just let him bowl for 4 years before people even think of a spot in the BCs. He hasnt a clue how to bowl yet nor about playing for 6 months let alone a year. Its called tim to develop.
Please people we very very rarely have people come into top flight cricket and succeed straight away and these guys need to be left alone to learn the game

Most people are better than James Marshall I would hope...

It took people two years to figure out Hay has two scoring areas? Hard. To. Believe. Plus I'm sure on the footage TV 3 used when they ran a story on him was of him playing a cover drive for four...

Also, if a guy is averaging 50 odd after two seasons, you can hardly call the selectors stupid for considering him.

Also, I've never suggested Boult or Williamson for the Black Caps yet, and everyone else on here is the same I think, so don't know where you're going with that one. Broom has been a very good bat for Otago and NZ A and I seem to recall McCullum saying in the media once (possibly radio sport) that Broom at the time was the best player not to have played for the Black Caps.

And as for Tuffey, at his peak Vettori described him in his book as near Bond value, and possibly more valuable because he didn't fall over injured all the time.

I do agree with your McClennaghan comments though, except that 4 years shouldn't be set in concrete. If he's obviously test class before then, and the state of the bowling attack requires him, then pick him.

 

[Athlai]

Crook?

Buy Hay IMO.

 

[Flem274*]

Thank you for proving you know neither the location of arse nor elbow when it comes to the first-class scene. The hat-trick was in a first-class game against Canterbury, not a Twenty20. Look it up, then once again ask me if I know what first-class cricket is. I'm more than aware.

Look, my issue was not whether McClenaghan is a proven first-class player, a up-and-comer or an astronaut. It was that I get sick when I see people sticking the knives into young cricketers who haven't had enough time to learn their trade and become the cricketers that you immediately demand they become.

I agree with a lot the last guy said and also Polo23 made a good balanced comment away.

I don't know about that 4-year suggestion but spot on with the rest of it. He'll learn to be consistent, he'll learn how to manage his body, he'll learn everything it takes to be a good bowler etc etc. He's a rare talent yet some people want to call him rubbish already.

...no one is demanding he becomes a world beater already, we just want improvement....hopefuly to FC standard.

 

[Flem274*]

Buy Hay IMO.

Would be so annoyed if he averaged 80+ in a season for Welly.

 

[Athlai]

Would be so annoyed if he averaged 80+ in a season for Welly.

He fully would.

 

[Flem274*]

He fully would.

Like totally not.

 

[trapol]

now youve gone mad. Hay averaging above 80. WOW

Last year was a year where the wickets were flatter than a pancake and he failed in all but one inning. Lets be serious here if he cant make the CD side then he shouldnt be playing first class cricket. Remember with Taylor/Oram out and with How missing a small part of the season if he was all that he would still be there. Remember those in CD are saying that Weston/Patton/Worker are better bats than Hay. Thats the selectors plus the captain maybe even the board who have to approve it. Thats a lot of supposedly educated cricket people there.

He is just not that good

 

[Athlai]

I take things literally too.

 

[Flem274*]

now youve gone mad. Hay averaging above 80. WOW

Last year was a year where the wickets were flatter than a pancake and he failed in all but one inning. Lets be serious here if he cant make the CD side then he shouldnt be playing first class cricket. Remember with Taylor/Oram out and with How missing a small part of the season if he was all that he would still be there. Remember those in CD are saying that Weston/Patton/Worker are better bats than Hay. Thats the selectors plus the captain maybe even the board who have to approve it. Thats a lot of supposedly educated cricket people there.

He is just not that good

I'm not sure if I'm even going to bother. Two years of lots of runs are staring you in the face.

On current form the selectors have a case for those guys all being better, in terms of overall career value I can see them being proven wrong.

Also try to recognise people having a joke occassionally. Cheers.

 

[trapol]

would he make the Auck side....No
would he make the ND side.....maybe
would he make the CD side...i guess no
would he make the Wellington side...maybe
would he make the Cant side....Last year Def Yes but with Nicol maybe. However Astle is contracted so Yes
would he make the Otago side...No

So i dont think he's been hard done by. Wellington wouldve considered him as they ended up picking Merchant so you can only imagine that they considered all options? maybe not knowing what our first class associations are like

 

[trapol]

point taken...i obviously cant determine whether you are joking online. so apologies for that. i have to say i thought you were being serious just to make your point. sorry again