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Thread: Javed Miandad

  1. #16
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    Miandad was probably Pakistan's greatest batsman, and I'm a fan of his. Having said that, I think like Inzamam, he falls just short of being called an all-time great batsman because of his poor record against the best team of his era, the West Indies, similar to the way Inzamam struggle against Australia/South Africa. Had he been succesful, I would have no problem putting him in that category. As it is, he is still a world class player and very succesful at getting under the skin of the opposition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wfdu_ben91 View Post
    From what I've heard, seen and read of Gavaskar, he wasn't one of the most comprehensive cricketers to have ever played the game. A guy who was once selfish enough to bat 60 overs in a limited overs match and finished 36 not out and then claim he had trouble adjusting to the conditions, albeit the opposition's run-rate was almost 6 an over. He was also a guy who once jumped for joy and acted like he had just won the Olympics after he hit a 6 during a ODI in Australia during the 1980s... is this suppose to be a guy who is classes above someone like Hayden, who for him, hitting a six is inevitiable?.
    Nobody is going to argue that Gavaskar was a poor one day cricketer, but that doesnt affect his status in tests.

    Quote Originally Posted by wfdu_ben91 View Post
    His record against the West Indies is awfully decieving aswell, as he peppered the Windies in the 70s before all of their great bowlers appeared on the scene or had hit their strides, but yet failed as an Opening Batsman against the Windies in the 80s.
    Not completely true. He only failed in one series against the West Indies in 82, and was succesful in all series besides that , including against Holding and Roberts in 75-76, and the pace quartet in 83.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by subshakerz View Post
    Not completely true. He only failed in one series against the West Indies in 82, and was succesful in all series besides that , including against Holding and Roberts in 75-76, and the pace quartet in 83.
    He averaged 28 in the 1980s against the West Indies as an Opening Batsman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wfdu_ben91 View Post
    He averaged 28 in the 1980s against the West Indies as an Opening Batsman.
    He averaged 30 in the series in 82 and 50 in the series in 83. His average only goes down when you discount the 236* he scored playing in the middle order, but he shouldn't be penalised for that.


  5. #20
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    One thing that has always puzzled me is this “dickhead” reputation that Miandad seems to have gotten on the field (I’m not referring to any of his off-field activities). There is of course that famous spat with Lillee that contributes to it. Disgraceful as it was, nearly everyone agrees it was Lillee’s fault (and in fact most agree Lillee wanted to provoke Miandad). Lilee didn’t suffer nearly the dent in his reputation as compared to Miandad, for whatever reason. Besides that incident, we all know that Miandad was chatty and wanted to get in the skin of the opposing players. I don’t think he did that in an overly negative way. It was skillful sledging. Gavaskar often likes to tell of the incident where Miandad got to Dilip Doshi. Gavaskar “praised his contemporary Pakistani cricketer Javed Miandad for possessing a rare skill of unsettling the opposition by just "talking" and not having to resort to sledging. Miandad had a "sharp" sense of humour and was one of those rare species of batsmen who "talked" to the bowlers, Gavaskar said while delivering the Colin Cowdrey lecture at the the Lord's, London” (source). So again, I’m just lost as to why Miandad is labeled a prick on the field, when to me all he’s guilty of is being a fierce competitor and fighter who refused to back down from anyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by subshakerz View Post
    He averaged 30 in the series in 82 and 50 in the series in 83. His average only goes down when you discount the 236* he scored playing in the middle order, but he shouldn't be penalised for that.
    Walking in at 0/2 is equivalent to opening the batting anyway.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fusion View Post
    One thing that has always puzzled me is this “dickhead” reputation that Miandad seems to have gotten on the field (I’m not referring to any of his off-field activities). There is of course that famous spat with Lillee that contributes to it. Disgraceful as it was, nearly everyone agrees it was Lillee’s fault (and in fact most agree Lillee wanted to provoke Miandad). Lilee didn’t suffer nearly the dent in his reputation as compared to Miandad, for whatever reason. Besides that incident, we all know that Miandad was chatty and wanted to get in the skin of the opposing players. I don’t think he did that in an overly negative way. It was skillful sledging. Gavaskar often likes to tell of the incident where Miandad got to Dilip Doshi. Gavaskar “praised his contemporary Pakistani cricketer Javed Miandad for possessing a rare skill of unsettling the opposition by just "talking" and not having to resort to sledging. Miandad had a "sharp" sense of humour and was one of those rare species of batsmen who "talked" to the bowlers, Gavaskar said while delivering the Colin Cowdrey lecture at the the Lord's, London” (source). So again, I’m just lost as to why Miandad is labeled a prick on the field, when to me all he’s guilty of is being a fierce competitor and fighter who refused to back down from anyone.
    I completely agree. Miandad was shabbily treated by press and opponents alike in this matter. He was no worse than the Aussies of his time and he did have a great though rustic sense of humour. I think he got on the nerves of his opponents because his cockiness was combined to a somewhat uncouth exterior. I remember we used to call him "taangewallah" (man who runs a horse cart in town) because that is the how he looked. He lacked sophistication and it was held against him, unfairly I think. If Majid and Imran had tried to get on their opponents nerves from that close in ring, I think they would have been treated differently. We show our class-consciousness by the way we reacted to this man of the soil. He was unpolished and did not bother about it. Normally when players from India or Pakistan, in those days, lacked the social graces or a public school education, they tended to be somewhat subdued being ultra-conscious of their 'background' as it were. Miandad carried his rusticness as a chip on his shoulder and flung it into the faces of his opponents.

    I think the sub-continent should have been proud to have a player who gave back to the established powers of the game as good as he got but we had our complexes I suppose.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJS View Post
    I completely agree. Miandad was shabbily treated by press and opponents alike in this matter. He was no worse than the Aussies of his time and he did have a great though rustic sense of humour. I think he got on the nerves of his opponents because his cockiness was combined to a somewhat uncouth exterior. I remember we used to call him "taangewallah" (man who runs a horse cart in town) because that is the how he looked. He lacked sophistication and it was held against him, unfairly I think. If Majid and Imran had tried to get on their opponents nerves from that close in ring, I think they would have been treated differently. We show our class-consciousness by the way we reacted to this man of the soil. He was unpolished and did not bother about it. Normally when players from India or Pakistan, in those days, lacked the social graces or a public school education, they tended to be somewhat subdued being ultra-conscious of their 'background' as it were. Miandad carried his rusticness as a chip on his shoulder and flung it into the faces of his opponents.

    I think the sub-continent should have been proud to have a player who gave back to the established powers of the game as good as he got but we had our complexes I suppose.
    Agree 100% with what you wrote.

  9. #24
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    He is an all time great. I dont think ne one on this board doubts that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrIncredible View Post
    He is an all time great. I dont think ne one on this board doubts that.
    erm...

    Quote Originally Posted by subshakerz View Post
    he falls just short of being called an all-time great batsman

  11. #26
    U19 Debutant MrIncredible's Avatar
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    Well then Subshakerz aside Javed is an all timer to all. What i think let him down (in my eyes atleast) is his record against the best attack of his times. Had he averaged around 40 vs the wi instead of 29 he probably would have been looked at in a better light.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrIncredible View Post
    Well then Subshakerz aside Javed is an all timer to all. What i think let him down (in my eyes atleast) is his record against the best attack of his times. Had he averaged around 40 vs the wi instead of 29 he probably would have been looked at in a better light.
    I suppose it depends on what one classifies as 'all-time great'. For me, an 'all-time great' is worth consideration for an all-time XI, and Javed isn't quite at that level, similar to Inzamam. I make a distinction between being a world class player (among the best of your time, and certainly Javed was among the best batsmen of the 80s) and being an 'all-time great' (among the best of any era). Had he succeeded more against the WI, I would not hesitate putting him there. We wouldn't consider Lara and Tendulkar all-time greats if they averaged 29 against Australia, and the same standard applies.

  13. #28
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    True but Australia werent the only great attack around in the Sachin/Lara era and they both struggled mightily against those attacks (RSA and Pakistan BTW).

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    Quote Originally Posted by subshakerz View Post
    Not completely true. He only failed in one series against the West Indies in 82, and was succesful in all series besides that , including against Holding and Roberts in 75-76, and the pace quartet in 83.
    Gavaskar record vs WI pacers is one of the weirdest things in cricket history for me. His record is definately bloated by the joke attacks he faced in 70/7 & 78/79 on some flat decks.

    Otherwise it seems as if when the pitch had something the WI would fail him, but if it was flat he would always score big runs.

  15. #30
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    I pretty much agree with SJS when he said that the only reason Gavaskar is in the all time slot because he was an opener.. personally i would pick Miandad and Sir Vivian any day over Gavasker in any format of the game...

    For me Miandad is the best and all time best batsman representing Pakistan.. the only other batsman that ever came close to his legacy was Inzi..he was a formidable batsman.. who would deliever.. when it was needed.. later on the same habit was picked by Inzi..

    I think the only reason he isn't considered in all time best XI is because of his bating position..Certainly the position that he batted on.. there were other batsmans who deserved that slot in all time XI..so it made it hard to pick him over them..

    I mean i can't imagin leaving Sachin or Lara out for Maindad..or Sir Richards and Bradman at number 3 for that matter..
    Last edited by AaronK; 07-07-2009 at 04:13 PM.

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