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Build-up to Indian Domestic Season 2009-10

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Munaf Patel at home averages 26 in 12 matches. So it is worth a punt giving him a run in the squad at least if not in the XI.

I agree though that Praveen Kumar is the better option as he can bat. Don't know whether he can be consistently good with the ball though. That is some thing he will have to answer in the coming days but I do see Praveen Kumar as India's all rounder in the ODI squad for I certainly don't see Nayar filling that role and Pathan's bowling is just not good enough to take enough wickets. Praveen would have a spot in my first XI for sure for an ODI right now.

I always feel Patel's lack of fielding is oer emphasized though as fielding is not that big a factor, even in modern day ODI cricket and you can afford to have one bad fielder in your team.
 
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Manee

Cricketer Of The Year
I agree though that Praveen Kumar is the better option as he can bat. I always feel Patel's lack of fielding is oer emphasised though.
Pretty safe pair of hands and perhaps fielding is not massively important but good fielding possesses a sort of morale boost that I feel cannot be put in terms of runs or wickets and Munaf is just not pulling out any sorts of morale boosting stops or throws - it drains the team to see the oppo take two to fine leg over and over again.
 

Manee

Cricketer Of The Year
I always feel Patel's lack of fielding is oer emphasized though as fielding is not that big a factor, even in modern day ODI cricket and you can afford to have one bad fielder in your team.
It is not just one though, our whole team's fielding is pretty poor, on the whole.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Going by how the Challenger Trophy has progressed, it needs to be reworked completely. While some advocate scrapping it altogether, the Indian ODI team needs a workout, and this can be treated as that. Make it a competition between the main team, the first reserves and the development team, like it used to be back in the 1990s. This is by no means an indication for national selection- the list of Challenger successes who became ODI failures keeps mounting.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Discussions on selection seem to be centered around the pace attack again. Let's look at other factors, shall we? There's that aspect of balance that needs to be addressed, then getting the right fielding unit in the game, effective medium-pacers for the middel-overs and closing stages and shadows for the top six batsmen, in case of emergencies such as the last one.

The ODI selection should now have few Test regulars in it, and have a different look to it. Every player should have fielding basics covered- even relatively sluggish ones like RP Singh and Praveen have got a few aspects right, while Munaf has none. It may involve dropping some of the supposedly best ODI players in the team, but the message must go out. Fielding is a prime aspect of ODI cricket and should not be ignored.

There is talk of conserving key bowlers (such as Ishant) for Tests by keeping them out of ODI cricket. That should be thought about, given how many useless ODIs are played. You can also look at lower order units of Australia (Mitch, Lee, Hauritz after Watto and Hopes), South Africa (all bowlers can score runs bar Steyn and Langeveldt), New Zealand (Vettori, Franklin, Mills and even Bond) and Sri Lanka (Thushara, Kulasekara after Matthews). India should have a lower-order like that. Unfortunately, some bowlers (RP, Ishant, Nehra) can't bat for toffees, and yet formed 9-10-11 in a match, following Harbhajan, who's taken virtually no effort to improve his batting.

In such cases, the Pathans, Chawla, Praveen Kumar, Mishra and behind them, Nayar, Bhatia, Ashwin, Jadeja, and further back Dhiraj Goswami and Saxena come handy. The ODI bowling stocks should have bowlers such as these, who will score useful runs. These runs, coming from three or more, will add up to something substantial.

While many have given up on the Pathans, their utility in limited-overs cricket cannot be discounted. Let's not forget, Irfan was once a leading pace bowler at a young age, so he can't be out of it completely. He's recovering from an injury, and if he finishes a season well, he should be back in contention, at least as ODI specialist. Yusuf will be useful as a spinner who can bat a bit, rather than the reverse. Praveen seems to be more of a stuntman than a batsman, so he shouldn't be released until the final overs, which is a key factor. Alone, he's useless- he's no Kallis. Three like him will make an effective Lee-Johnson-Hauritz lower-order. Mishra doesn't have the List-A stats in his favour, but with nine FC 50s, he's also an option. Chawla's off the boil, but should be back. The selectors should stop looking for an Indian Jacques Kallis; he doesn't really exist. Other teams manage with groups of lesser players, so India should too.

So a Test bowling combination of Zaheer-Ishant-Nehra-Harbhajan-Mishra-Munaf-Ojha will be fine, while for ODIs they can have Zaheer-Irfan-Praveen-Mishra-Yusuf-Nehra-Chawla in the squad. They can get in their Test stalwarts into the ODIs in more important events (a tour of South Africa, a series against Australia, Champions Trophy, and finally, World Cup). Gvien how much ODI cricket the Indians play, a typical English/Kiwi team loaded with multi-skilled players and athletes is the way to go.

As for shadowing the top six, the TN trio of Mukund, Vijay and Badrinath should be in contention. They field better, they run between wickets better and hit big shots better. There's even a spot for Dhawan, going by recent performances. I don't buy the too-flashy approach; this is not Test cricket! We've seen several flashy players such as Dilshan and Brendon do well for their teams, so why not pick one such for India? Their relatively conservative players have let them down in the Champs Trophy anyway. Besides, those three didn't need the Challenger nonsense to stake a claim- they've done consistently well in the last few seasons. A place for Kaif shouldn't be ruled out either.
 
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Shri

Mr. Glass
Uthappa over Kaif. He is younger than Kaif and is a slightly better batsman. Good fielder too.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Uthappa over Kaif. He is younger than Kaif and is a slightly better batsman. Good fielder too.
Uthappa's strength is as an opener. If he can string together substantial innings, he'll do good for his team. Kaif is a marginally better fielder and will add stability at four. A shadow top-six of Mukund, Vijay, Uthappa, Dhawan, Badrinath and Kaif isn't a bad option.
 

Manee

Cricketer Of The Year
The Syed Mushtaq Ali Trophy is underway. Several matches today, cricinfo reporting one as having finished already. Asaam rolling over Orissa for 83 and then chasing without trouble. Bahutule took 4/19 but, for me, the interesting thing was the return of Abu Nechim Ahmed, who, along with many others, is no longer with the ICL. Abu Nechim was an India U19 opening bowler. He has some pace (135kph) and swings the ball away from the right hander, certainly one to watch for international honours, if he strings a good few domestic seasons together or returns with one super domestic season where he looks to near the top of the wicket takers lists.

Railways take out Uttar Pradesh in what would probably be considered somewhat of an upset. All the UP bowlers were expensive, even the international fringe players, RP Singh (1/31 off 4) and Chawla (3/35 off 4). More promising players in their return from the ICL though - TP Singh, thought by many to be the top fielder in the ICL, as well as a handy batsman and useful bowler, scored 34 off 28 balls at number 3.
 
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_Chandan

Cricket Spectator
The Syed Mushtaq Ali Trophy is underway. Several matches today, cricinfo reporting one as having finished already. Asaam rolling over Orissa for 83 and then chasing without trouble. Bahutule took 4/19 but, for me, the interesting thing was the return of Abu Nechim Ahmed, who, along with many others, is no longer with the ICL. Abu Nechim was an India U19 opening bowler. He has some pace (135kph) and swings the ball away from the right hander, certainly one to watch for international honours, if he strings a good few domestic seasons together or returns with one super domestic season where he looks to near the top of the wicket takers lists.

Railways take out Uttar Pradesh in what would probably be considered somewhat of an upset. All the UP bowlers were expensive, even the international fringe players, RP Singh (1/31 off 4) and Chawla (3/35 off 4). More promising players in their return from the ICL though - TP Singh, thought by many to be the top fielder in the ICL, as well as a handy batsman and useful bowler, scored 34 off 28 balls at number 3.
Guys,

This is no longer the 'build-up to Indian domestic season' but the domestic season is underway right now. Can't we start a new thread even if Irani, Challengers, and SM Ali tournament is gone or is going?
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Guys,

This is no longer the 'build-up to Indian domestic season' but the domestic season is underway right now. Can't we start a new thread even if Irani, Challengers, and SM Ali tournament is gone or is going?
Someone can rename the thread, as we've decided to have one thread for the build-up and in-game.
 

Manee

Cricketer Of The Year
Just rechecked the sort of players who were topping the run scorers, batting averages, wicket takers, etc, lists in the ICL and there are a few strong domestic performers in there who may be in line for future India colours.
  • Thiru Kumaran: Impressed with medium pace at the death.
  • Ganapathi Vignesh: Scored a lot of runs at the top of the order in the ICL 20s and was top wicket taker in the ICL 50s.
  • Dheeraj Jadhav: Scored a fair few runs and actually has a brilliant domestic record.
  • Bipul Sharma: Didn't see him play, myself, but another with a superb domestic record
  • Ali Murtaza: The most impressive bowler of the ICL. Has a slightly suspect action but kept tremendously low economy rates throughout the ICL 20s and 50s.
  • Monish Mishra: Great batsman to watch, remember watching him score a century. Was always in the runs in the ICL.
  • Abhishek Jhunjhunwala: A lot of hype around him and he did score a century in his ICL 50s debut, but underperfomed considering the massive hype around his batting.

EDIT: Monish Mishra hit 84 off 37 today for Madhya Pradesh today - looks like the ICL exodus is the key to India's T20 fortunes, if things continue like this.
 
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Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Just rechecked the sort of players who were topping the run scorers, batting averages, wicket takers, etc, lists in the ICL and there are a few strong domestic performers in there who may be in line for future India colours....Monish Mishra hit 84 off 37 today for Madhya Pradesh today - looks like the ICL exodus is the key to India's T20 fortunes, if things continue like this.
You don't want a team full of such players, do you? Let's see how they do in the whole tournament. Of these players, Monish Mishra is the most impressive, and possibly TP Singh and Mihir Diwakar, but the rest of them don't offer too much. Even TP Singh, whom you mentioned twice, doesn't have a particularly spectacular record. There's Mihir Diwakar, and outside the ICL exodus, Arun Karthik, Saurabh Tiwary and Sanjay Bangar to choose from, but the fringe players often do better than the frontline Test/ODI picks. That said, the fewer T20 specialists in the team, the better.

Among the big matches, Assam have upset Bengal in one of the bigger matches today. Except Wriddhiman Saha, none of the others have had a good game- including the other two keepers. Shreevats Goswami had a decent outing, but didn't last long, while Deep Dasgupta's return was forgettable.

In the bigger Delhi/Punjab clash, Delhi eased to a five-wicket win. At a final score of 136, with only Gony scoring quickly, they had little chance against the stronger Delhi team. The match was played at a minor sports complex ground in Delhi, and Delhi still struggled to score enough to win. It was a good game for Rajat Bhatia, taking three wickets for 32 and then top-scoring with 37 runs at a strike rate of 154.

The rest of the games had little to offer. I checked on the Haryana scorecard, and though Sachin Rana scored 33 off 20 deliveries, he didn't bowl at all. Joginder Sharma came, scored quickly and left, then came back to take two for 20. Amit Mishra didn't get a game. The MP match didn't have much to offer, except for Monish's 84.
 

Manee

Cricketer Of The Year
More T20s today...some individual performances.
  • Wasim Jaffer: 95 off 61 (continues to highly impress in limited overs cricket)
  • Rohit Sharma: 41 off 27
  • Niraj Patel: 96 off 61
  • Irshad Sindhi: 88 off 52
  • Yusuf Pathan: 52 off 21
  • Samiullah Beigh: 3/18 off 4
  • Manpreet Gony: 3/15 off 4
  • Saurabh Tiwary: 44 off 44 (to chase down a small total successfully)
  • Faiz Fazal: 55 off 51 (ditto)
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Wrap of today's matches. Only three matches, with two in East Zone, with Bengal losing again. The slightly more interesting Central encounter had MP edging past UP.

We'll have more exciting games tomorrow.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Until the scorecards come online, let's look at the series in comparison with the IPL. We know that the IPL teams didn't bond well together, as they had spent little time as a team. Yet, there's a proposal to induct more foreign players in IPL teams, which will only compound the problem. That's a suggestion coming from the largely lacklustre T20 performances of the Indian players. On the other hand, the Diamond Eagles, with no regular internationals with them, came as far as the league stage, while Trini, inexperienced, with no overseas players, reached the finals. In such a case, do you consider the induction of Indian Domestic T20 teams instead of IPL teams a better idea?
 

Manee

Cricketer Of The Year
  • Ali Murtaza: The most impressive bowler of the ICL. Has a slightly suspect action but kept tremendously low economy rates throughout the ICL 20s and 50s.
I know one performance doesn't mean too much, but 3/9 off 4 on his return for UP, today, is a pretty good showing. Shalabh Srivastava also made his official cricket return for UP today with 1/33 off 4. Not an amazing showing, but I do believe he may hold up a place in an IPL team next year; in the ICL, I saw him bowl at good pace (135-140kph) and get some pretty steep bounce.
 

Manee

Cricketer Of The Year
Until the scorecards come online, let's look at the series in comparison with the IPL. We know that the IPL teams didn't bond well together, as they had spent little time as a team. Yet, there's a proposal to induct more foreign players in IPL teams, which will only compound the problem. That's a suggestion coming from the largely lacklustre T20 performances of the Indian players. On the other hand, the Diamond Eagles, with no regular internationals with them, came as far as the league stage, while Trini, inexperienced, with no overseas players, reached the finals. In such a case, do you consider the induction of Indian Domestic T20 teams instead of IPL teams a better idea?
No, I do not feel that it would be a better idea, as the IPL is our premier domestic competition. I do believe that teams must merely be more shrewd in the Indian talent, they pick. This is something which will be infinitely assisted by the ICL exodus. The ICL exodus is going to release a good deal of strong Indian domestic talent who are going to now be well versed in the T20 format; this will strengthen the IPL teams greatly. I believe that it would be a 'straw man' to attribute the failure of the teams to the foreign quota. Instead I feel it is, the connected but different, refusal of the management to look closely at the Indian talent which makes up seven of each playing XI. The key performers in this tournament must be taken more seriously and given long term opportunities to perform in the IPL, as it is those who will form the backbone of the teams. Players like Niraj Patel, Saurabh Tiwary, who are scoring runs in next to every game must be taken more seriously than the Mohammad Kaifs (not an ideal example, but the point is still there) who lack consistency but not reputation. Teams should look to a Sangwan over someone like Salvi, who has not played much domestic cricket in the recent years and is a poor bowler, despite the past India caps. With a single team system (the state system) which runs through the entire season, the esteemed performers are more apparent to management and selectors, but I believe that shrewd management can account for this with informed selections.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
No, I do not feel that it would be a better idea, as the IPL is our premier domestic competition. I do believe that teams must merely be more shrewd in the Indian talent, they pick. This is something which will be infinitely assisted by the ICL exodus. The ICL exodus is going to release a good deal of strong Indian domestic talent who are going to now be well versed in the T20 format; this will strengthen the IPL teams greatly. I believe that it would be a 'straw man' to attribute the failure of the teams to the foreign quota. Instead I feel it is, the connected but different, refusal of the management to look closely at the Indian talent which makes up seven of each playing XI. The key performers in this tournament must be taken more seriously and given long term opportunities to perform in the IPL, as it is those who will form the backbone of the teams. Players like Niraj Patel, Saurabh Tiwary, who are scoring runs in next to every game must be taken more seriously than the Mohammad Kaifs (not an ideal example, but the point is still there) who lack consistency but not reputation. Teams should look to a Sangwan over someone like Salvi, who has not played much domestic cricket in the recent years and is a poor bowler, despite the past India caps. With a single team system (the state system) which runs through the entire season, the esteemed performers are more apparent to management and selectors, but I believe that shrewd management can account for this with informed selections.
The IPL is more of a festival than a domestic competition. If Champions League performances mean a place in an IPL team, then it doesn't make too much sense.

The ICL exodus is over-rated, as some ignored fringe players did better. You mentioned Niraj Patel, and I've highlighted his record in the T20 selections thread.

I too believe the IPL teams' failure is because of the management's refusal to develop the Indian player base. Look at the performance of the Indians in the event, and in the last IPL, and you get a hint. Some teams could use their Indian talent a lot more, but concentrated too much on their foreign base- the South/East Zone teams being a good example. Conversely, the performance of Eagles and T&T suggests that they used the whole team, for good performances. The Salvi example isn't the best- he was out of action for a very, very long time, and they just wanted one more option- Sangwan, profligate as he was, still was a more prominent player for Delhi.
 

Arjun

Cricketer Of The Year
Now Manpreet Gony's record is a huge surprise. He's the best bowler for Punjab, with an average of ten, and in addition, he's also a recognised batsman for them- with a healthy strike rate of 176! The same Manpreet Gony was smashed for loads of sixes by the IPL teams, and was primarily a bowler in that team. What can you take out of this?
 

Manee

Cricketer Of The Year
Now Manpreet Gony's record is a huge surprise. He's the best bowler for Punjab, with an average of ten, and in addition, he's also a recognised batsman for them- with a healthy strike rate of 176! The same Manpreet Gony was smashed for loads of sixes by the IPL teams, and was primarily a bowler in that team. What can you take out of this?
He could give the ball a good smack in the IPL but won't stay in too long against IPL teams. However, regarding his bowling, it is good to see him do well, but there is a chance that he is just profiting from Indian batsmen not used to the pace and bounce which he brings to the table.
 

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