Build-up to Indian Domestic Season 2009-10

[Pratters]

Yeah, that was definitely the carrom ball Manee. It hit him too high and was clearly going over the top of the stumps.

I love India's spin options now - Harbhajan, Mishra, Chawla, Ojha, Ashwin.

[Manee]

Originally Posted by Pratters

His career ODI economy rate is 4.81 which is bloody good. In 2008, it was 4.3 in 12 matches. He has an economy rate of 8.7 in 4 matches in 2009 which have seen him out of the team but I would keep him.

Indeed, and no wickets in 2009 either. Such terrible runs of form cannot be afforded for a player who does not rip teams apart on the best of days, at international level, and who cannot bat or field.

[Manee]

Originally Posted by Pratters

I love India's spin options now - Harbhajan, Mishra, Chawla, Ojha, Ashwin.

Indeed, with such spin talent, we should pretty much always look to get two full time spin bowlers in both the Test and ODI teams.

What speed is Munaf bowling btw?

[Pratters]

Our other pace bowling options aren't that much better.

Edit - 120-130.

[Manee]

Originally Posted by Pratters

Our other pace bowling options aren't that much better.

Edit - 120-130.

120kph is very slow, indeed and simply will not be prying out ODI wickets. He may be able to capitalise on a good situation, but we do need a bowler who can force wickets and he currently is not able to do that.

I know our other pace bowling options are not that much better, if better at all but I think that Munaf, even at the best of times is not a great option. Someone like Praveen Kumar can have his good days with bat and ball whereas best case for Munaf is 10 tight overs. Munaf should always be in the bank for ODI cricket if it all goes wrong with the other options but I don't think we should be in a rush to put him in the ODI team. It is sad to say this after his extremely strong initial run in ODI cricket but he seems to have petered out a bit.

I think we should always look in ODI cricket to play two spinners, Harbhajan and one of the others and look to have two pacers. The sort of pecking order I think would be good would be...
1. Zaheer Khan
2. Ashish Nehra
3. Praveen Kumar
4. RP Singh
5. Sudeep Tyagi
6. Munaf Patel
7. Ishant Sharma

[Pratters]

Munaf Patel at home averages 26 in 12 matches. So it is worth a punt giving him a run in the squad at least if not in the XI.

I agree though that Praveen Kumar is the better option as he can bat. Don't know whether he can be consistently good with the ball though. That is some thing he will have to answer in the coming days but I do see Praveen Kumar as India's all rounder in the ODI squad for I certainly don't see Nayar filling that role and Pathan's bowling is just not good enough to take enough wickets. Praveen would have a spot in my first XI for sure for an ODI right now.

I always feel Patel's lack of fielding is oer emphasized though as fielding is not that big a factor, even in modern day ODI cricket and you can afford to have one bad fielder in your team.

[Manee]

Originally Posted by Pratters

I agree though that Praveen Kumar is the better option as he can bat. I always feel Patel's lack of fielding is oer emphasised though.

Pretty safe pair of hands and perhaps fielding is not massively important but good fielding possesses a sort of morale boost that I feel cannot be put in terms of runs or wickets and Munaf is just not pulling out any sorts of morale boosting stops or throws - it drains the team to see the oppo take two to fine leg over and over again.

[Manee]

Originally Posted by Pratters

I always feel Patel's lack of fielding is oer emphasized though as fielding is not that big a factor, even in modern day ODI cricket and you can afford to have one bad fielder in your team.

It is not just one though, our whole team's fielding is pretty poor, on the whole.

[Arjun]

Going by how the Challenger Trophy has progressed, it needs to be reworked completely. While some advocate scrapping it altogether, the Indian ODI team needs a workout, and this can be treated as that. Make it a competition between the main team, the first reserves and the development team, like it used to be back in the 1990s. This is by no means an indication for national selection- the list of Challenger successes who became ODI failures keeps mounting.

[Arjun]

Discussions on selection seem to be centered around the pace attack again. Let's look at other factors, shall we? There's that aspect of balance that needs to be addressed, then getting the right fielding unit in the game, effective medium-pacers for the middel-overs and closing stages and shadows for the top six batsmen, in case of emergencies such as the last one.

The ODI selection should now have few Test regulars in it, and have a different look to it. Every player should have fielding basics covered- even relatively sluggish ones like RP Singh and Praveen have got a few aspects right, while Munaf has none. It may involve dropping some of the supposedly best ODI players in the team, but the message must go out. Fielding is a prime aspect of ODI cricket and should not be ignored.

There is talk of conserving key bowlers (such as Ishant) for Tests by keeping them out of ODI cricket. That should be thought about, given how many useless ODIs are played. You can also look at lower order units of Australia (Mitch, Lee, Hauritz after Watto and Hopes), South Africa (all bowlers can score runs bar Steyn and Langeveldt), New Zealand (Vettori, Franklin, Mills and even Bond) and Sri Lanka (Thushara, Kulasekara after Matthews). India should have a lower-order like that. Unfortunately, some bowlers (RP, Ishant, Nehra) can't bat for toffees, and yet formed 9-10-11 in a match, following Harbhajan, who's taken virtually no effort to improve his batting.

In such cases, the Pathans, Chawla, Praveen Kumar, Mishra and behind them, Nayar, Bhatia, Ashwin, Jadeja, and further back Dhiraj Goswami and Saxena come handy. The ODI bowling stocks should have bowlers such as these, who will score useful runs. These runs, coming from three or more, will add up to something substantial.

While many have given up on the Pathans, their utility in limited-overs cricket cannot be discounted. Let's not forget, Irfan was once a leading pace bowler at a young age, so he can't be out of it completely. He's recovering from an injury, and if he finishes a season well, he should be back in contention, at least as ODI specialist. Yusuf will be useful as a spinner who can bat a bit, rather than the reverse. Praveen seems to be more of a stuntman than a batsman, so he shouldn't be released until the final overs, which is a key factor. Alone, he's useless- he's no Kallis. Three like him will make an effective Lee-Johnson-Hauritz lower-order. Mishra doesn't have the List-A stats in his favour, but with nine FC 50s, he's also an option. Chawla's off the boil, but should be back. The selectors should stop looking for an Indian Jacques Kallis; he doesn't really exist. Other teams manage with groups of lesser players, so India should too.

So a Test bowling combination of Zaheer-Ishant-Nehra-Harbhajan-Mishra-Munaf-Ojha will be fine, while for ODIs they can have Zaheer-Irfan-Praveen-Mishra-Yusuf-Nehra-Chawla in the squad. They can get in their Test stalwarts into the ODIs in more important events (a tour of South Africa, a series against Australia, Champions Trophy, and finally, World Cup). Gvien how much ODI cricket the Indians play, a typical English/Kiwi team loaded with multi-skilled players and athletes is the way to go.

As for shadowing the top six, the TN trio of Mukund, Vijay and Badrinath should be in contention. They field better, they run between wickets better and hit big shots better. There's even a spot for Dhawan, going by recent performances. I don't buy the too-flashy approach; this is not Test cricket! We've seen several flashy players such as Dilshan and Brendon do well for their teams, so why not pick one such for India? Their relatively conservative players have let them down in the Champs Trophy anyway. Besides, those three didn't need the Challenger nonsense to stake a claim- they've done consistently well in the last few seasons. A place for Kaif shouldn't be ruled out either.

[Shri]

Uthappa over Kaif. He is younger than Kaif and is a slightly better batsman. Good fielder too.

[Arjun]

Originally Posted by metallics2006

Uthappa over Kaif. He is younger than Kaif and is a slightly better batsman. Good fielder too.

Uthappa's strength is as an opener. If he can string together substantial innings, he'll do good for his team. Kaif is a marginally better fielder and will add stability at four. A shadow top-six of Mukund, Vijay, Uthappa, Dhawan, Badrinath and Kaif isn't a bad option.

[Manee]

The Syed Mushtaq Ali Trophy is underway. Several matches today, cricinfo reporting one as having finished already. Asaam rolling over Orissa for 83 and then chasing without trouble. Bahutule took 4/19 but, for me, the interesting thing was the return of Abu Nechim Ahmed, who, along with many others, is no longer with the ICL. Abu Nechim was an India U19 opening bowler. He has some pace (135kph) and swings the ball away from the right hander, certainly one to watch for international honours, if he strings a good few domestic seasons together or returns with one super domestic season where he looks to near the top of the wicket takers lists.

Railways take out Uttar Pradesh in what would probably be considered somewhat of an upset. All the UP bowlers were expensive, even the international fringe players, RP Singh (1/31 off 4) and Chawla (3/35 off 4). More promising players in their return from the ICL though - TP Singh, thought by many to be the top fielder in the ICL, as well as a handy batsman and useful bowler, scored 34 off 28 balls at number 3.

[_Chandan]

Originally Posted by Manee

The Syed Mushtaq Ali Trophy is underway. Several matches today, cricinfo reporting one as having finished already. Asaam rolling over Orissa for 83 and then chasing without trouble. Bahutule took 4/19 but, for me, the interesting thing was the return of Abu Nechim Ahmed, who, along with many others, is no longer with the ICL. Abu Nechim was an India U19 opening bowler. He has some pace (135kph) and swings the ball away from the right hander, certainly one to watch for international honours, if he strings a good few domestic seasons together or returns with one super domestic season where he looks to near the top of the wicket takers lists.

Railways take out Uttar Pradesh in what would probably be considered somewhat of an upset. All the UP bowlers were expensive, even the international fringe players, RP Singh (1/31 off 4) and Chawla (3/35 off 4). More promising players in their return from the ICL though - TP Singh, thought by many to be the top fielder in the ICL, as well as a handy batsman and useful bowler, scored 34 off 28 balls at number 3.

Guys,

This is no longer the 'build-up to Indian domestic season' but the domestic season is underway right now. Can't we start a new thread even if Irani, Challengers, and SM Ali tournament is gone or is going?

[Arjun]

Originally Posted by _Chandan

Guys,

This is no longer the 'build-up to Indian domestic season' but the domestic season is underway right now. Can't we start a new thread even if Irani, Challengers, and SM Ali tournament is gone or is going?

Someone can rename the thread, as we've decided to have one thread for the build-up and in-game.