Vaughan to retire?

[Richard]

Originally Posted by Golaxi

what a legend. at the end of a career an average speaks for itself.

Well, not really, but even so, Vaughan's career average is a huge disappointment. Always, I and so many thought him capable of so much more.

he was an absolute genious as a captain. i dont think england will ever have a better captain again.

I very much doubt that. Even in modern times, England have in my view had two better captains - Mike Brearley and Nasser Hussain. To compare Vaughan to those of more bygone days would be fraught with difficulty and near-impossible in my view. But Vaughan was certainly no more than very good as a captain in my view - not best-ever material, certainly not.

[GeraintIsMyHero]

Not that it necessarily matters much, but Vaughan is ranked as a better skipper than Hussain by Hussain himself

[Richard]

Hussain's nothing if not self-depreciating and humble. Not a good person to offer a self-assessment, IMO.

Richie Benaud also believes Ian Chappell was a better captain than himself. Hundreds and hundreds disagree (and presumably some agree as well).

[shivfan]

In 82 Tests, Vaughan averaged just over 41 with the bat, which is just marginally acceptable, IMHO....

Let's compare that record with Sarwan, whom quite a few observers feel has not quite fulfilled his potential. From 81 Tests, Sarwan has only averaged 42 with the bat. And that's considered an underachievement....

[Kweek]

I think everyone agrees that Vaughan shouldve done better then he did, but being a captain knocks of 5 runs of your average imho...
not to talk anything right, but being a captain is a big burden, especially being Englands captain.

[GingerFurball]

Originally Posted by Kweek

I think everyone agrees that Vaughan shouldve done better then he did, but being a captain knocks of 5 runs of your average imho...
not to talk anything right, but being a captain is a big burden, especially being Englands captain.

Or possibly, looking at his career FC average, Vaughan was never that good a batsman in the first place, who just so happened to hit a remarkable purple patch immediately prior to becoming captain.

[shivfan]

Interestingly, Chris Gayle's Test batting average actually went up after he became captain, so for some people the added responsibility brings a better performance with the bat....

[aussie]

Originally Posted by Richard

Although that knock at Old Trafford wasn't an outstanding one (dropped and bowled by a no-ball off successive McGrath deliveries) there were occasional other knocks in the meantime where he did indeed recapture it. His two centuries in the summer of 2007; even his twin centuries at Lord's in the summer of 2004.

Well looking away from your crazy FCA theory for a minute. Vaughan was brilliant in that innings. His hundreds vs WI 04 nor 07, wasn't anywhere close to his form of IND/AUS 02.

Originally Posted by Richard

What in my view held Vaughan back was opening the batting, but even if he'd never been asked to do that, I very much doubt he'd have performed all that much better than he did. Even as a middle-order batsman he still disappointed on plenty of occasions.

Well inversely, i've always felt opening was Vaughan's best position.

Originally Posted by Richard

As I say - if he'd been performing superlatively pre-captaincy for 4-5 years, then yeah, you could say the captaincy probably affected him. But he wasn't. He was performing exactly as he performed post-captaincy-appointment for 6-7 years, with a very brief 8-month purple patch at the last minute (without which he could conceivably have not even got the captaincy).

Nah i wont call that a just a purple patch. Vinood Kambli, Michael Clarke IND 04 - WI 05/06, Wasin Jaffer when he came back the other day, Hayden IND 01 to Ashes 05 etc. These would be purple patches because after massive peak periods, they then where worked out technically.

Vaughan after he became captain in 03, only showed any signs of a technical flaw in Ashes 05, when Lee started bowling him out off stump. Whice as you know Steyn also replicated last season.

Originally Posted by Richard

There was even speculation Trescothick was on the road to retirement \ being dropped in early-2003. There really was purely and simply no candidate for the ODI captaincy with any remotely convincing case in 2003. Vaughan was appointed purely because it was hoped he'd go from dreadful to decent, which was simply never going to happen.

Hmm i honestly dont remember any that surrounding Trescothick...

[GingerFurball]

You've got a weird definition of purple patches.

Hayden had been garbage for about 18 months prior to the 05 Ashes, from the Oval Test until injury in 2008 he was back to his epic form of 2001-03.

[Uppercut]

Originally Posted by shivfan

In 82 Tests, Vaughan averaged just over 41 with the bat, which is just marginally acceptable, IMHO....

Let's compare that record with Sarwan, whom quite a few observers feel has not quite fulfilled his potential. From 81 Tests, Sarwan has only averaged 42 with the bat. And that's considered an underachievement....

Quite right, yes. Although tbf if Sarwan was a top-class captain as opposed to a comically bad one he'd be bringing a lot more to the West Indies side.

[aussie]

Originally Posted by GingerFurball

You've got a weird definition of purple patches.

Hayden had been garbage for about 18 months prior to the 05 Ashes, from the Oval Test until injury in 2008 he was back to his epic form of 2001-03.

Haa..check back your facts. Hayden was poor from IND 04 to TB. That would be just about 6-8 months.

Hayden from Mumbai 01 to Cairns 04. Hayden although i a MASSIVE fan - was a big FTB, benefiting from alot of poor attacks & flat decks world wide "Purple Patch". Until he was exposed technically by first Akhtar & Mills in late 04, then fully in the Ashes 05.

From Oval 05 to SCG 08. He laid to rest those demons in various test againts some testing bowling.

But unfortunately the final chapter of his career was marred by injury & pressure from the media given AUS poor test performances. Thus he retired.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by aussie

Well looking away from your crazy FCA theory for a minute.

No point. Vaughan should've been out off consecutive balls. Deal with it.

Vaughan was brilliant in that innings.

Sometimes he was brilliant, sometimes he was vulnerable.

His hundreds vs WI 04 nor 07, wasn't anywhere close to his form of IND/AUS 02.

Disagree. He played no less well against West Indies on comeback or against India at Trent Bridge, or in his twin centuries at Lord's in 2004, as he had against India at The Oval or Australia at the MCG in 2002.

Well inversely, i've always felt opening was Vaughan's best position.

His modus operandi as an opener was to race to 20 or 30 then give an easy chance. That is everything you don't want in an opener - neither seeing-off the new-ball nor building a massive score.

Nah i wont call that a just a purple patch. Vinood Kambli, Michael Clarke IND 04 - WI 05/06, Wasin Jaffer when he came back the other day, Hayden IND 01 to Ashes 05 etc. These would be purple patches because after massive peak periods, they then where worked out technically.

Vaughan after he became captain in 03, only showed any signs of a technical flaw in Ashes 05, when Lee started bowling him out off stump. Whice as you know Steyn also replicated last season.

It wasn't a case of technical flaws, it was a case of flaws in shot execution and selection. Vaughan simply drove too regularly and edged too regularly.

Hmm i honestly dont remember any that surrounding Trescothick...

Well I assure you, it did.

[Lillian Thomson]

Michael Vaughan has finally found his true vocation.

New career for Vaughan

[Goughy]

Originally Posted by Lillian Thomson

Michael Vaughan has finally found his true vocation.

New career for Vaughan

I started to laugh and then stopped when they were actually pretty good. Titles need some work though IMO

[King Pietersen]

I heard about the whole 'artballing' thing months and months ago and was pretty impressed by the results. There were a couple of really nice pieces. My favourite was one on a light blue background with some stumps made from the marks from the balls, looked really nice. Can't get on the official website for them atm though, seems to have been taken down which is a shame, as there were far more pieces than the 4 shown on the Gallery site linked to on the BBC site.

Here's a small picture of the piece I liked: