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The stats do not do him justice!

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Well this particular debate raged through the 1990s. Even before Russell made his debut in 1988, there was this debate. Then he scored (iirc) 94 on debut and his place was secure until the emergence of Alec Stewart as a serious rival for the gloves in the early 90s.

As for which of the two was the better keeper, I just don't accept that Stewart was Russell's equal in any aspect of his game but I do have to admit once again that I'm no expert in wicketkeeping technique.

When assessing which should have been picked, you need to bear in mind that Stewart's batting record was outstanding as a specialist batsman, but diminished significantly as a keeper/batsman. So by dropping Russell you found yourself with one of your best batsman's batting impaired, and with a weaker wicketkeeper. Two ways in which the team was quite seriously undermined. On the other hand, it did free up space for another specialist batsman or bowler.

As you point out Russell was no mug with the bat. His career average of (?) 27 was perfectly respectable, and comparable with Boucher's 30 in a more batsman-friendly era. He could score runs in tricky situations and annoyed the hell out of the opposition.
Russell had a very good start to his Test career as a batsman (scored 94 in his maiden innings and averaged 39 with a century the following summer - riches indeed in the context of those diabolical 1988 and 1989 seasons), and also did well when recalled (ironically after Stewart's injury) in 1995 until he was dropped for the familiar reasoning in 1996. Other than that, he did so little of note as a Test batsman.

Purists who insist that natural talent is more important than anything else will always claim that Russell was massively superior to Stewart with the gloves - the truth is that Stewart manufactured himself into a better wicketkeeper than Russell standing back. Russell made random, unexplained errors standing back more often than Stewart did.

As for Stewart's lack of runs as batsman-wicketkeeper, well, when he finally got a grip on the position from 1996/97 onwards he put a stop to that. He also did decently enough in 1993 and 1995 (before his injury). I imagine that if Gooch had gone to West Indies in 1994 Stewart would've retained the gloves in the middle-order rather than going back to open the batting; as it was he did the latter and it would be another 2-and-a-half years before he got the position.

The first time the idea of Stewart being a long-term wicketkeeper was mooted was in 1993; before then he'd just played the occasional last Test of a series when England were down (not unusual) and did sod-all on all bar about 1 occasion. What caused Stewart problems was not keeping wicket but being tossed constantly between keeping and not keeping.
 

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Jack Russell was and is as mad as a box of frogs - there must have been some personality clashes along the way
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
He was dropped because his batting was worse than Stewart's.

Of course that overlooked the fact that although Russell's average of 27.10 was less than Stewarts of 32.52, Stewart actually averaged 47.02 when he wasn't keeping over that time - so I don't really see that as strengthening the batting before you even factor in Russell's far far superior keeping skills.
 

Lillian Thomson

Hall of Fame Member
There was never a time when Stewart was anywhere near Russell as a wicketkeeper whether it be standing back, standing up or standing on one leg whistling I Shot the Sheriff.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
If natural talent alone was considered, then yes, but if natural and manufactured skill combined is concerned, Stewart became better than Russell standing back, spilling fewer takes. Stewart was also better at being a deputy, swearing, and self-defence, which suggests that if anything involving I Shot The Sheriff was involved he would probably be better too.
 
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Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
He was dropped because his batting was worse than Stewart's.

Of course that overlooked the fact that although Russell's average of 27.10 was less than Stewarts of 32.52, Stewart actually averaged 47.02 when he wasn't keeping over that time - so I don't really see that as strengthening the batting before you even factor in Russell's far far superior keeping skills.
Stewart as a permanent wicketkeeper-batsman averaged all but 40 - that's 13 runs higher than Russell.

The only other role Stewart filled apart from wicketkeeper-batsman was opener - and there were other openers who could do as good a job as he did. There was no-one who could come close to his calibre as batsman-wicketkeeper, however. Russell, who averaged 13 runs less, came closest of anyone - the others tried (Blakey, Rhodes, Hegg, Read, Foster) were even worse.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Let me guess, he ignored what I posted and talked about his whole career rather than the time when the 2 were in genuine competition.

Play the both and you get a world class opener and potentially one of the best keepers of all time batting at 7.

Pick one and you end up with a much inferior opener, a much inferior keeper, but you gain 5 runs.
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
Abdul Qadir's stats look very ordinary, but simply had the fact that he was Pakistan's greatest spinner.
I think it is more than just that.

Leg spinners were a dying breed. A genuine, slow, leg spinner (not medium paced one like O'Reilly and Chadrashekhar) hadn't been seen in the world since Richie Benaud. It is fascinating to see how wrist spinners were dying as a tribe after a great resurgence in the art immediately after WWI

Have a look. The world always had a great leg spinner for 40 years; from 1920 till the beginning of the 1960's.

  • Early 1920's : Mailey
  • Mid '20's - mid '30's : Grimmett
  • 1940's : Doug Wright
  • 1950's : Subhash Gupte and Richie Benaud.

Suddenly after Benaud and Gupte, the world seemed to stop producing leg spinners. It was not a coincidence that it coincided with the dullest phase in cricket's history. The Test matches turned into wars of attrition. Batting became dogged, dour and defensive, wickets became dead and deader and the bowling became steady and completely focussed on keeping team totals within manageable proportions. Draws became the order of the day and an assortment of medium paced bowlers and finger spinners became the foot-soldiers of all attacks.

The process had started in the fifties when after Bradman's retirement, England started building its defenses against another 'invasion' and long drawn occupation by any future enemies. The fifties started the process and it culminated in the sixties with the complete transformation of the game from a spectacle to a tedious boring affair. The disease spread throughout the game into the first class level and the crowds started staying away from county games.

This gave rise to the the first reactionary move by the cricketing establishment - the limited overs game - at the beginning of the 1970's. Instead of doing something for the direction the game was taking for almost two decades, the 'clerks' that ran the Imperial Cricket Conference decided that the problem was with the spectator and he needed a 'fix'. A dose of the potent stuff would make it easier for him to live with the tedious experience that his staple diet bestowed upon him.

Of course, it was no cure and as with all drugs, steroids and painkillers, it brought its own side effects; many of them permanent in nature. But as we say in the sub-continent "Neem hakim khatra-e-jaan" (Trans: A quack or half doctor is dangerous to the patient's life). But we digress.

The 'dull dogs' that cricketers were called in the fifties and sixties, had no place in their 'packs' for the adventurous and exciting wrist spinners so we did not see one at the world stage for almost two decades after Gupte and Benaud.

In between we had a large number of great finger spinners starting with Titmus, Illinworth, Gibbs and Prasanna in the sixties to Venkat, Bedi, Underwood and Mallett in the seventies; but no leg spinner. A whole generation of cricket fans had grown up without having seen a world class wrist spinner operating.

And then came Qadir. With his quirky 'hop, step and leap' terminating in a whirl of activity in that windmill like action, he was a phenomenon. On top of that, unlike another quirky wrist spinner of our times from South Africa, he was deadly accurate and had a massive bag of tricks. He took our imaginations by storm. In a world where to be a superstar at cricket you had to be a batsman likeRichard, Gavaskar, Chappell, Zaheer or a fast bowler like Lillee Thomson, Roberts and Holding, he was a super-star leg spinner. Qadir was as big a star in his time as Warne became twenty years later; and he did not need any off field peccadilloes for that :)

No. Qadir was not just Pakistan's greatest spinner - he was the leg spinner that ended the twenty year drought of slow and flighty wrist spinners at the world stage. Warne was to perform the same feet another twenty years later but Abdul Qadir was the first.

PS : To say that his stats look ordinary is to show a lack of appreciation for a great art. You can not decide on the relative quality of masterpieces of art by their relative sizes.
 
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fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
In 1974 Pakistan had three leggies in the series against England - Intikhab, Mushtaq and Wasim Raja - none of them all time greats I accept but the first two were decent bowlers and Raja was no mug
 

SJS

Hall of Fame Member
In 1974 Pakistan had three leggies in the series against England - Intikhab, Mushtaq and Wasim Raja - none of them all time greats I accept but the first two were decent bowlers and Raja was no mug
Oh yes. Its not as if there were absolutely no wrist spinners left in the game. India had Chandu Borde and VV Kumar in the sixties; Australia played the largest number of leg spinners of varying merits in Philpott (sixties). Bobby Simpson and Johnny Gleeson (60's and 70's), Higgs (late 70's), Peter Sleep (80's), Bruce Holland (80's). Why, even West Indies had Holford. But world class spinners, who would win Test matches with their bowling regularly were not there.
 

Burgey

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As a non-expert in wicketkeeping matters, I always felt that Russell was pretty much the best keeper in the world during his career, Healy included.

Stumped Dean Jones off the bowling of Gladstone Small in 1990/1 iirc
Still the best individual piece of keeping I've seen live tbh.
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
Would have to say Fred Flintoff. People in later years will look at his overall record and say that he can't of being that good, or his lack of 5-fers and point to that as proof he wasn't a devestating, match-winning bowler. Of course, if they dig a little deeper, they'll work it out.

This bit of filtering might help, but even then won't tell the story of the pressure he created, how he stepped up at the key moments, or how fancied his opponents were:
http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/player/12856.html?class=1;home_or_away=1;opposition=2;template=results;type=allround
 
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aussie

Hall of Fame Member
The 2 big reason why Fred has taken more 5 wicket hauls since he became test quality in Bridgetown 04 are:

- Outside Ashes 05, Flintoff has regularly had to act not only as England main attacking option. But as the main defensive bowler, when the situation gets out of hand. Since the balance of ENGs bowling attack due to injuries & lack of quality support, hasn't allowed Freddie to be used in short sharp bursts.

- Secondly, as Ian Chappell rightlfully highlighted in Ashes 06/07. His whole career is a bit like Ambrose in AUS 92/93 before the Perth performance. Freddie natural lenght is back of lenght & just outside off, he doesn't bowl full which at times affects his ability to take big hauls in test matches.

But in ODIs, such a line & lenghts have proven to be perfect for him though.
 

MrIncredible

U19 Cricketer
The 2 big reason why Fred has taken more 5 wicket hauls since he became test quality in Bridgetown 04 are:

- Outside Ashes 05, Flintoff has regularly had to act not only as England main attacking option. But as the main defensive bowler, when the situation gets out of hand. Since the balance of ENGs bowling attack due to injuries & lack of quality support, hasn't allowed Freddie to be used in short sharp bursts.

- Secondly, as Ian Chappell rightlfully highlighted in Ashes 06/07. His whole career is a bit like Ambrose in AUS 92/93 before the Perth performance. Freddie natural lenght is back of lenght & just outside off, he doesn't bowl full which at times affects his ability to take big hauls in test matches.
But in ODIs, such a line & lenghts have proven to be perfect for him though.
excellent insight that, didnt realise other posters noticed this about Ambrose
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Let me guess, he ignored what I posted and talked about his whole career rather than the time when the 2 were in genuine competition.

Play the both and you get a world class opener and potentially one of the best keepers of all time batting at 7.

Pick one and you end up with a much inferior opener, a much inferior keeper, but you gain 5 runs.
You don't end-up with a much inferior opener at all - for much of the time England had Gooch and Atherton. If Stewart had kept wicket from 1993 onwards rather than 1996/97 onwards, England would've been far better-off. What damaged them was the constant to-and-fro between Russell and Stewart - and, worse, the fact that the likes of Blakey, Rhodes and Hegg were picked as well.

Stewart and Russell were in genuine competition, incidentally, for a whole 5 years - 1993 to 1998. Before then Stewart was only ever a short-term option (and performed accordingly) and after then Russell had retired.

This 5-year period proves nothing compared the the 7 years of excellence Stewart managed after he was given the gloves permanently - which soon induced Russell to retire (and still the selectors weren't satisfied, this time giving the gloves to some random 20-year-old called Chris Read who had done nothing whatsoever to merit them).
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Classic Dickinson stat-slicing. Love it.
As opposed to the stat-blurring "Stewart averaged ___ as a wicketkeeper-batsman" which means precisely nothing?

Makes far more sense to use meaningful stats than meaningless ones.
 

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