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Thread: The stats do not do him justice!

  1. #196
    Cricketer Of The Year Manee's Avatar
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    I'm going to be accused of knee-jerkism but Piyush Chawla's FC stats don't do him justice. Outside India, such as on U19 tournaments, in the India A tour of Africa and in this county season, he has been awesome, he just happens to have the misfortune of performing averagely in India where he plays about 90% of his FC cricket.
    The speed at which a fielding team gets through the innings is overrated.

  2. #197
    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    Pushy's first class averages for Sussex:
    Batting 102
    Bowling 21

    Ok it's only 1.75 games but in those games he's managed to fit one century, and 19 wickets...

  3. #198
    U19 Vice-Captain rivera213's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manee View Post
    I'm going to be accused of knee-jerkism but Piyush Chawla's FC stats don't do him justice. Outside India, such as on U19 tournaments, in the India A tour of Africa and in this county season, he has been awesome, he just happens to have the misfortune of performing averagely in India where he plays about 90% of his FC cricket.
    An average of 27 isn't bad for a spinner, it isn't great but we have many worse.

    The fact the BCCI get over-excited everytime someone shows promise at an early age and sticks them in the test team doesn't help a player's development imo.

    I hope no-one has written him off as a possible test player in the future since he's still only 20 and how many 20 year olds are test class?
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  4. #199
    U19 Vice-Captain rivera213's Avatar
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    Another player I think deserves better stats is Richard Hadlee (batting).

    I think he was a better batsman than 27 w/2 centuries.

    He had 5 innings in the 80's, a 92* against us, a 99 and while his style of playing doesn't necessarily lend itself to consistently big innings, I wouldn't begrudge him a 30+ average and half of those 80+ innings converted to 100's.

    His 103 against the Foursome at a strike rate of almost 112 showed he had a lot of balls at least. That test probably isn't known for Hadlee's innings though....


  5. #200
    Cricketer Of The Year Manee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rivera213 View Post
    An average of 27 isn't bad for a spinner, it isn't great but we have many worse.

    The fact the BCCI get over-excited everytime someone shows promise at an early age and sticks them in the test team doesn't help a player's development imo.

    I hope no-one has written him off as a possible test player in the future since he's still only 20 and how many 20 year olds are test class?
    I accept your points, but if you consider that he has done magnificantly (albeit in just 1.75 matches) in England and did so damn well in dominating Zimbabwe and Kenya in Africa and compare that to his relative mediocrity in India, it paints a stark contrast.

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manee View Post
    I accept your points, but if you consider that he has done magnificantly (albeit in just 1.75 matches) in England and did so damn well in dominating Zimbabwe and Kenya in Africa and compare that to his relative mediocrity in India, it paints a stark contrast.
    He is only 20.

    England can't play spin to save their skin.

  7. #202
    U19 Debutant MrIncredible's Avatar
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    Ian Bishop. Just looked at his record in stats guru highest average away from home was 26 in Pakistan. Averaged under 25 against all teams (averaged 31 against NZ in 2 tests and 37 vs SL in 2 tests imo not near enough of a sample size so dont count). IM Bishop had the potential (had he played atleast 50 tests) to take over well over 200 wickets, SR under 50 and WPM 4.5 and an average of 22. still ended up with a good/great record but what might have been....

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrIncredible View Post
    Ian Bishop. Just looked at his record in stats guru highest average away from home was 26 in Pakistan. Averaged under 25 against all teams (averaged 31 against NZ in 2 tests and 37 vs SL in 2 tests imo not near enough of a sample size so dont count). IM Bishop had the potential (had he played atleast 50 tests) to take over well over 200 wickets, SR under 50 and WPM 4.5 and an average of 22. still ended up with a good/great record but what might have been....
    He could have been very well at his peak when he played those tests. But it's indeed a classic case of what might have been. Similar record regarding Waqar. Had he retired due to some reason, god forbid, after his first 4 or 5 years at the top level, people would have been comparing him with the greatest ever fast bowlers. A player can truly be judged only after his whole career, and should have gone through the full cycle in that.

  9. #204
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smith View Post
    England can't play spin to save their skin.
    England isn't one thing, nor are all batsmen who play for and in England the same.
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  10. #205
    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    England isn't one thing, nor are all batsmen who play for and in England the same.
    No, but if you had to apply one stereotype to English batsmen it would be that they are hopeless against wrist spin. And having watched Mushy for the past 5 years believe me that, by and large, the stereotype is true. I can't think off-hand of too many exceptions. The only players I can think of who consistently scored runs against us in the Mushy years were Ramps (who must have averaged 200 against us), Stuey Law and Matt Walker.

  11. #206
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    It's true that good-quality wristspin does tend to have the wood over a large majority of English batsmen. What shouldn't be forgotten, however, is that good-quality wristspin has the wood over a large majority of batsmen.

    Average fingerspin and crap-quality wristspin, however, is quite another matter. And it irritates the heck out of me when people are incapable of distinguishing between England and English batsmen, never mind applying one blanket stereotype to every single batsman to come out of a country.

  12. #207
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrIncredible View Post
    Ian Bishop. Just looked at his record in stats guru highest average away from home was 26 in Pakistan. Averaged under 25 against all teams (averaged 31 against NZ in 2 tests and 37 vs SL in 2 tests imo not near enough of a sample size so dont count). IM Bishop had the potential (had he played atleast 50 tests) to take over well over 200 wickets, SR under 50 and WPM 4.5 and an average of 22. still ended up with a good/great record but what might have been....
    Bishop toured here in 92-93 and IIRC he'd already had injury issues and wasn't as good or quick as he had been. Even so, the man was terrifying frankly. I think it was him who clocked Langer in the melon on debut at Adelaide in that famous test too.
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  13. #208
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    I've only ever seen hindsight footage of Bishop, at a time when I was truly appreciative of what makes a good bowler (I did watch him in 1995, but being just 9 years old at the time I didn't really think too hard about it).

    I've no doubt that Bishop of '89-'90/91 and '92/93-'93 was among the best bowlers the game has seen, and that Bishop of '95-'97 was still a very fine merchant fit to rank as an excellent Test bowler.

    It's just that in 1997/98 and 1998 he was very poor indeed and those who judge him purely by his overall career average think he was merely excellent, when, as I say, he was in fact for a time one of the best ever.

  14. #209
    Spanish_Vicente sledger's Avatar
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    Marus Trescothick immediately sprung to mind when I read this thread title.

    Please discuss.

  15. #210
    U19 Vice-Captain rivera213's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smith View Post
    He could have been very well at his peak when he played those tests. But it's indeed a classic case of what might have been. Similar record regarding Waqar. Had he retired due to some reason, god forbid, after his first 4 or 5 years at the top level, people would have been comparing him with the greatest ever fast bowlers. A player can truly be judged only after his whole career, and should have gone through the full cycle in that.
    Yet he still ended up with more wickets per innings and an average the same as Wasim with not only a SR of 10+ less than both Wasim and Imran but the best SR of anyone with 200+ test wickets.

    I think it's fair to compare him with the best ever, and he has a credible case to be considered THE best ever- especially since he played in a great era for bowling AND batting.

    I can't really split him and Wasim though. I'd take either.

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