The stats do not do him justice!

[Richard]

Originally Posted by Uppercut

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat!

Originally Posted by zaremba

I was going to pick up on that too. I didn't, because I accept that if it's a pretty technique you're after, Bell is hard to beat. But to my mind Penisen is one of the most watchable batsmen I've ever seen.

I realise Bell suffers from the sort of cosmetic-induced hate that I can't escape the feeling is held by you two (ie, he's a short good-looking blonde lad who doesn't score the runs that have always been expected of a batsman as technically good as him) but I still find him a hugely good batsman to watch when he is playing well.

Pietersen is, in his own unique way, great to watch IMO - but only because he's so unconventional you just don't quite know what's coming next, and he plays shots in a way precious few do. I'd still prefer a technically copybook batsman like Bell to him though.

[zaremba]

Originally Posted by GingerFurball

He is though. No-one in the history of the game has come close to replicating what Bradman did.

Bradman took 80 Test innings to score all but 7,000 Test runs. Hammond is the fastest of all time to 7,000 runs, and it took him 131 innings. Tendulkar is 2nd on that all time list with 136 innings.

Bradman is one of only 3 batsmen in the history of the game to have scored 2 Test triple centuries in a career, is still miles out in front in terms of double hundreds scored with 12. In 2nd place is Brian Lara, who played almost 3 times the number of innings Bradman did, and made 9.

Looking at Bradman's First Class stats - Bradman has the highest all time career FC average (95) - well clear of 2nd placed Merchant on 71. Bradman also played 338 career FC innings and scored 117 hundreds, with 69 fifties. Again, no-one comes close to replicating those stats.



Statistically speaking, Bradman is the greatest sportsman of all time. No-one in any other sport where talent can be reasonably measured statistically has been as dominant of his peers as Bradman has.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by pasag

Yeah, I remember praising him a while back (couple of years ago now) on the forum and getting shot down. Fantastic player. Let's hope he remains fit and doesn't have to bowl on too many more disgustingly flat tracks.

I didn't and still don't rate Gul much as a ODI bowler but I've always thought he had great potential in the longer format. We merely have to hope he actually gets the chance to play a decent amount of it.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by rivera213

As for the issue of stats showing what happened, I disagree. Stats do not take into account things such as match situations, pressure (especially in Sachin's case since he is bigger than Hinduism in India! Lol), quality of bowling faced etc.

All stats require context. If you refuse to accept context and insist all is of the same value, you'll be deceived.

However, if you accept and look at the details then you'll be able to decipher truths shown by stats.

[fredfertang]

Originally Posted by zaremba

Apropos of nothing I wonder what Bradman would have achieved had he not been injured during England's 900 at the Oval in 1938. By the sound of it that was a road to end all roads on what was, IIRC, a timeless Test.

He might have got 1,000.

... or even if he'd won the toss

His health was always a little fragile - he was supposedly not at his best all through the 1934 tour and had to have an emergency appendectomy at the end of the tour

..and he had a dodgy back after the war

[zaremba]

Originally Posted by Richard

I realise Bell suffers from the sort of cosmetic-induced hate that I can't escape the feeling is held by you two (ie, he's a short good-looking blonde lad who doesn't score the runs that have always been expected of a batsman as technically good as him) but I still find him a hugely good batsman to watch when he is playing well.

Pietersen is, in his own unique way, great to watch IMO - but only because he's so unconventional you just don't quite know what's coming next, and he plays shots in a way precious few do. I'd still prefer a technically copybook batsman like Bell to him though.

I'm not guilty on this one. I've nothing against pretty techniques - I grew up with David Gower as my cricketing hero. Anyhow I have no hate whatsoever for Bell, I think he's the sort of soft target who tends to get an unfair press on CW and whenever he's picked for England I hope he does well. Yes he's frustrating and yes he's so far failed to produce the performances that his ability demands but like you I love watching him bat when he's scoring runs.

Not sure what you mean by the "short good looking blond lad" comment!

[Richard]

Originally Posted by Luffers

Mike Gatting, averaged 35 in tests. This doesn't do him justice, he was far better than that. He had a poor start to his Test career but rapidly improved after 20-30 tests.

Gatting's career, like Mushtaq Ahmed's, essentially came three-part: two dreadful periods at the start and end; one superb (and relatively brief) one in the middle.

Again, the stats show that fully if you're prepared to look rather than just be spoon-fed the career average from a player page.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by zaremba

I'm not guilty on this one. I've nothing against pretty techniques - I grew up with David Gower as my cricketing hero. Anyhow I have no hate whatsoever for Bell, I think he's the sort of soft target who tends to get an unfair press on CW and whenever he's picked for England I hope he does well. Yes he's frustrating and yes he's so far failed to produce the performances that his ability demands but like you I love watching him bat when he's scoring runs.

I see. Maybe I've failed to recall with absolute accuracy your previous posts on the subject of him. There are rather a large number of that mentality, after all!

Not sure what you mean by the "short good looking blond lad" comment!

There's IMO indisputably an instinctive prejudice against good-looking boyish lads amongst, well, most males TBH. Not all, at all, but far more than not.

Whether it's jealousy or what I'm not sure, but if they're sportsmen their failures are always disproportionately criticised.

[Goughy]

Originally Posted by zaremba

I don't want to get involved in this debate other than to say that Larwood wasn't the only great English bowler faced by Bradman - Tate and Verity and Bedser (and a young Jim Laker) were among others who he faced in Tests, and he scored lots of runs against them all.

My thoughts exactly. Verity is an alltime great and IMO the greatest modern English spinner.

If averaging 90+ depended on luck and circumstance as well as skill then someone else would have come close.

[zaremba]

Originally Posted by Richard

There's IMO indisputably an instinctive prejudice against good-looking boyish lads amongst, well, most males TBH. Not all, at all, but far more than not.

Perhaps so, but I repeat that David Gower was my cricketing hero growing up.

Ian Bell is actually the spitting image of a (lesbian) friend of mine. Not sure what that proves, but there it is.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by Burgey

Wood had to play against the WI attack and a good England one

You seriously, seriously, seriously, seriously, seriously overestimate England's attack in 1985.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by zaremba

Perhaps so, but I repeat that David Gower was my cricketing hero growing up.

I know. As I say - you may have managed to exempt yourself from this trend (I certainly hope so) but that it exists is, for mine, beyond dispute.

[Burgey]

Originally Posted by Richard

You seriously, seriously, seriously, seriously, seriously overestimate England's attack in 1985.

Woody suffered from poor quality around him. He didn't have the benefit of great openers around him, otherwise his average would be higher than Ponting's and Tendulkar's. At least I think that's the argument. Ask Riv.

[Richard]

Yeah but England in 1985 were in seriously dire straits. And they were in an even worse state for the next 4 years thereafter.

England's attacks of any time from 1990 onwards have almost all been better than those of most of 1985.

[Burgey]

Originally Posted by zaremba

Ian Bell is actually the spitting image of a (lesbian) friend of mine. Not sure what that proves, but there it is.

Best post ever.

Seriously, yours and Fred's contributions since joining have been immense. Kudos.