Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18

Thread: Why swing is effective

  1. #1
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Posts
    23,053

    Why swing is effective

    Interactive Movie - Curveball - New Scientist

    Dunno if anyone's already posted this but it's an interesting effect. They use curveballs in baseball as the example but the principle is the same.
    The Colourphonics

    Bandcamp
    Twitderp

  2. #2
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    The Castle
    Posts
    41,223
    I knew it - swing is a myth!!!
    WWCC - Loyaulte Mi Lie
    "People make me happy.. not places.. people"

    "When a man is tired of London, he is tired of life." - Samuel Johnson

    "Hope is the fuel of progress and fear is the prison in which you put yourself" - Tony Benn

  3. #3
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    The great state of New South Wales
    Posts
    43,339
    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    I knew it - swing is a myth!!!
    Thread name: Why swing is effective
    Last post by: Burgey

    I would have bet my house on that post being a picture of Murray's mints. I'm so disappointed in you.
    ~ Cribbage

    Quote Originally Posted by Riggins View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by simonlee48 View Post
    Sanga has done well but Murali has done better. In my opinion, Murali is simply the best off spinner in history of cricket and I can't make that kind of statement for Sanga.
    Sanga isn't the best off spinner in the history of cricket? News to me.

  4. #4
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    54,572
    Yeah, massive let down Burgey
    "I am very happy and it will allow me to have lot more rice."

    Eoin Morgan on being given a rice cooker for being Man of the Match in a Dhaka Premier Division game.


  5. #5
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    The Castle
    Posts
    41,223
    But this is mythological swing, not the real, cheating English-style swing.

    Still a bad miss on my part, I admit.

  6. #6
    RTDAS pasag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Looking for milksteak
    Posts
    31,678
    Poor form
    Rest In Peace Craigos
    2003-2012

  7. #7
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Uppercut's Avatar
    Tournaments Won: 1
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    .
    Posts
    23,464
    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    Interactive Movie - Curveball - New Scientist

    Dunno if anyone's already posted this but it's an interesting effect. They use curveballs in baseball as the example but the principle is the same.
    Interesting indeed, but i don't see the relevance with regards to swing?
    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    The Filth have comfortably the better bowling. But the Gash have the batting. Might be quite good to watch.

  8. #8
    International Coach duffer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    So appalled...
    Posts
    11,451
    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Thread name: Why swing is effective
    Last post by: Burgey

    I would have bet my house on that post being a picture of Murray's mints. I'm so disappointed in you.
    Haha nice.

  9. #9
    First Class Debutant
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    .
    Posts
    856
    This has nothing to do with swing whatsoever.

  10. #10
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Posts
    23,053
    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    Interesting indeed, but i don't see the relevance with regards to swing?
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyGS View Post
    This has nothing to do with swing whatsoever.
    You've missed the point.

    What the illusion is all about has nothing to do with the movement of the ball and how it occurs but how our brains track a moving object and which part of our eyes we use to perceive/process it. Key point;

    The ball appears to swerve because our peripheral vision system cannot process all of its features independently. Instead, our brains combine the downward motion of the ball and its leftward spin to create the impression of a curve.

    Line-of-sight (or foveal) vision, on the other hand, can extract all the information from the ball's movement, which is why the curve disappears when you view the ball dead-on.


    Owing to the fact you face a baseball or a cricket ball side-on, there's going to be swapping between the processing. So, mid-flight, there's going to be changes in the way your brain perceives the movement/speed of the ball. This means your brain could, for example, exaggerate the degree of movement, perceive a change in its direction where there is none (many batsmen claim a ball swung both ways in flight, for example), make you lose the ball entirely, perceive movement when there was none at all, etc. And, as the illusion demonstrates, it's not just the swapping between processing which causes this; the direction and speed of the spin of the object changes how it's perceived.

    It's just an interesting facet of vision and makes the point that not all vision nor how it's processed is uniform. A smart bowler, fielder or captain could figure out how to manipulate this. For example, notice how in the illusion changing the fixation point changes the perception of the ball's movement. It doesn't take a genius to figure out you can simulate something similar by putting a close fielder in the batsman's field of vision. Old tactic and you'd assume it's just a distraction to the batsman but it's obviously more complex than that.
    Last edited by Top_Cat; 10-06-2009 at 05:42 PM.

  11. #11
    First Class Debutant
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    .
    Posts
    856
    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    You've missed the point.
    No, you've missed the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    The ball appears to swerve because our peripheral vision system cannot process all of its features independently. Instead, our brains combine the downward motion of the ball and its leftward spin to create the impression of a curve.

    Line-of-sight (or foveal) vision, on the other hand, can extract all the information from the ball's movement, which is why the curve disappears when you view the ball dead-on.
    You don't view a cricket ball with your peripheral vision, thus rendering the whole article irrelevent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    Owing to the fact you face a baseball or a cricket ball side-on
    No you don't. Your body's side on, but your head's not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    there's going to be swapping between the processing.
    No there's not, see above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    So, mid-flight, there's going to be changes in the way your brain perceives the movement/speed of the ball.
    No there's not, see above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    It doesn't take a genius to figure out you can simulate something similar by putting a close fielder in the batsman's field of vision. Old tactic and you'd assume it's just a distraction to the batsman but it's obviously more complex than that.
    This is completely ********. It would only make any difference if a batsman was for some reason staring straight at the fielder when the ball is bowled. Which obviously never ever happens. Ever.

  12. #12
    Cricketer Of The Year Manee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Heaven
    Posts
    8,431
    I'm inclined to agree with Jimmy, here.
    The speed at which a fielding team gets through the innings is overrated.

  13. #13
    U19 Vice-Captain rivera213's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    London
    Posts
    503
    Pile of **** article IMHO.

    Let's try to disprove the laws of fluid dynamics while we're at it.

    David Wells had a nasty curveball. Just thought I'd say that for no important reason.
    All-Time Test XI:
    Gavaskar, Boycott, Tendulkar, G.Pollock, V.Richards, Sobers, Gilchrist (wk), Warne (c), Waqar/Wasim, Lillee, Ambrose.

  14. #14
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Top_Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Posts
    23,053
    Grr, forum ate my post. Anyway, here's the highlights.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyGS View Post
    You don't view a cricket ball with your peripheral vision, thus rendering the whole article irrelevent.
    Sorry man, you're way off on this one. You do and it's been a subject of study for years. Here's the earliest example I could find specifically relating to sport;

    De Lucia, P., Cochran, E., (1985) Perceptual Motor Skills, 61(1):143-50

    Your peripheral vision really has little to do with being side-on because it's all around the eye, foveal vision only being a relatively small point in the centre and able to perceive a narrow band of vision. The bloke who did the illusion, Arthur Shapiro, has written fairly extensively about it. Your brain takes cues from peripheral vision all the time and, in sport, as the ball gets closer to you, your brain uses more perceptual cues from your peripheral vision which, as it turns out, is less precise. It's absoutely unavoidable to use peripheral vision in tracking a moving object.

    From the Journal of Vision;

    Journal of Vision - Drastically different percepts of five illusions in foveal and peripheral vision reveal their differences in representing visual phase, by Knight, Shapiro, & Lu

    An interview Shapiro did with Scientific American

    Optical Illusion: Tracking the trajectory of a curveball: Scientific American Blog

    Don't take my word for it, do a journal search yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyGS View Post
    This is completely ********. It would only make any difference if a batsman was for some reason staring straight at the fielder when the ball is bowled. Which obviously never ever happens. Ever.
    That was just an example. You don't need to stare at another focal point, a quick look will suffice and obviously it's not going to work every time. Once the ball is in flight, that's all it takes to change the perception of the motion of the ball.
    Last edited by Top_Cat; 11-06-2009 at 06:28 PM.

  15. #15
    First Class Debutant
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    .
    Posts
    856
    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    That was just an example. You don't need to stare at another focal point, a quick look will suffice and obviously it's not going to work every time. Once the ball is in flight, that's all it takes to change the perception of the motion of the ball.


    You're trying to tell me that I'm having a quick glance at the fielder while the ball is in flight? Yea good luck with that.

    This theory surely all revolves around me looking at something other than the ball when its released. Which I can tell you, from experience, never happens.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. *Official* England in West Indies
    By Richard in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 7667
    Last Post: 06-04-2009, 04:04 PM
  2. How to approach swing bowling.
    By tait express123 in forum Coaching and Equipment Forum
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 27-03-2009, 01:16 AM
  3. What happened to reverse swing?
    By Joe Ninety in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 21-03-2009, 01:55 AM
  4. An Analysis of McGrath
    By C_C in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 31-03-2005, 09:15 AM
  5. Happy Birthday Swing
    By age_master in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 25-04-2003, 07:55 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •