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Flintoff's bizzare anti immigration rant

BoyBrumby

Englishman
He isn't saying immigrants shouldn't work, though! He's saying that people in service jobs should be able to speak English - I mean, if I personally ran a hotel or a bar or whatever, I couldn't give a **** what a person I employed to serve customers looked like or where they were from, but they sure as hell need to be able to communicate with them. It's common sense.

I will say though, that I live in an area that probably has a higher white British % than most parts of the country - which jobs are these you're talking about, out of interest? You're obviously in the know for this sort of thing, given your line of work (when you're not pulling a sickie, obv)
Hotels, eateries, taxis, pubs, etc.

TBF, and someone alluded to this earlier, I would imagine Fred's accent might be harder to decipher to your average Pole/Lithuanian/Portuguese than a southern accent might be. Not knocking the Lanky accent, btw.
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
I think anyone who spends any time in our capital knows that London's service industry runs on immigrant labour; they gamely perform all the hard, dirty, menial jobs the natives won't touch.
There is an element of that but equally they are often far cheaper and less likely to complain.

It is nowhere near as simple as saying it is jobs that 'natives' will not take, though that is a part of the equation. One of the other reasons is that the wage market for menial/manual work is driven down by immigrant labour. As well as shrinking the opportunities for locals it feeds off each wave of immigrants.

I can certainly be argued that immigrant menial work hurts both the locals and the immigrants.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
There is an element of that but equally they are often far cheaper and less likely to complain.

It is nowhere near as simple as saying it is jobs that 'natives' will not take, though that is a part of the equation. One of the other reasons is that the wage market for menial/manual work is driven down by immigrant labour. As well as shrinking the opportunities for locals it feeds off each wave of immigrants.

I can certainly be argued that immigrant menial work hurts both the locals and the immigrants.
Possibly, but with the minimum wage, not very convincingly.

It's a sad by-product of the welfare state that a lot of Brits don't know how to work anymore. I may've mentioned this before, but a local company near me actually won't employ Brits for that very reason. They get around the anti-discrimination laws by specifying fluency in Russian or Polish for all jobs for "clarity of communication with other workers".
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
Hotels, eateries, taxis, pubs, etc.

TBF, and someone alluded to this earlier, I would imagine Fred's accent might be harder to decipher to your average Pole/Lithuanian/Portuguese than a southern accent might be. Not knocking the Lanky accent, btw.
Not sure Id agree with that either. It seems a pretty wide generalization. Living in Bulgaria I can tell for sure that the Bulgarians have far more trouble will Essex/London accents than certain slow, deliberate Northern accents.

The "Awright?" accents are pretty hard to decipher.
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
Possibly, but with the minimum wage, not very convincingly.

It's a sad by-product of the welfare state that a lot of Brits don't know how to work anymore. I may've mentioned this before, but a local company near me actually won't employ Brits for that very reason. They get around the anti-discrimination laws by specifying fluency in Russian or Polish for all jobs for "clarity of communication with other workers".
That is clearly not great for communities and a society though is it? These are clearly problems that need to be addressed at both ends.

It isnt simple enough for one side to criticise the 'British worker' for being lazy or one side to criticise foreign worker for stealing jobs and freezing out locals.

As with most things like this there are bigger forces regarding communities in play and both sides are culpable to an extent.

The second question is what happens to the second generation of large scale immigrant menial labour? Do they continue to do the same? If so an underclass is created. Do they want better jobs and careers? If so then they no longer fulfil the role they provided and they move into new industries. If they no longer fulfil that original role, is a production line set up to keep bringing in menial labour and take advantage of the next group? How long can that continue?

I think the bringing unskilled labour into a country on a large scale causes more problems than it addresses in the present. There are legacy costs to this short-termism.

I do want to add though, that I am in agreement with your main point that the British worker increasingly acts entitled and that the current (and previous) system has created a lethargic monster with diminishing personal responsibility.

I think it is a question of balance and not demonising one group.
 
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oitoitoi

State Vice-Captain
Well to be honest he should have put his foot down and refused to answer such questions, he's a sportsman not a politician, especially to someone like Piers Morgan who will spare no effort in creating a scandal.

Let's be frank, Freddie is working class from Preston, a place where race issues are never far away and racially motivated violence (both ways) are never far away, he probably didn't have the most enlightened upbringing and this really smells like a stitch up to me, what did you expect him to say? Though the rap music comment is frankly hilariously conservative, like there are no white metal groups promoting violence?

As an asian who grew up in northern England in a very middle class area where there were very few other asians I learnt from a young age how to tell what people's views were on race even if they said something quite different, and I think it can they can be broadly put into a few categories.

On one extreme we have council estate BNP breeding ground types, the ones who make you fear for your safety and call you **** openly. I always pity people like this because I think they've had little chance to become anything else.

Then you have 'Old people from a different time' a lot of people raised at the end of empire didn't think anything of using terms like wogs, n*****s or pakis, but they don't actually have any real malice behind it, I don't really have too many problems with that because my grandparents are the same, they call black people 'Kalas' and muslims 'Sabis' without any real venom. My best friend (an old money type english bloke, all his family except him went to Charter House or Eton) and I love taking the piss out of this stuff and our conversations are littered with racial slurs, he recently got pissed and put a sign on his door saying no n-words or dogs allowed (as a joke, we do stuff like that)...he lives in hampstead...he frantically took it down in the morning. I was once told by a retired British Army Major (at my school no less) that I wasn't half bad for a darkie, my teacher was horrified but I thought it was fantastic.

Then we have what unfortunately is probably the general public, people who will be candid with you at the work place or even socially, but will actually think deep down that british jobs should be for british (white) people and that you should **** off back to India or wherever, it's really not hard to tell, and often pretty depressing when you realise people are like this. You can always see from how they react to you within a group of people, or how they try and compete against you.

Then we have the people who aren't racist at all and have been well raised, but who just aren't that used to hanging around with different races and don't know too much about their cultures, always a pleasure meeting people like this.

Past this we have the super integrated multi culturalists, the people who genuinely don't seem to see skin colour or ethnicity, I must admit I'm not always totally comfortable around people like this because I'm just not used to it, a good friend of mine from Uni was like this and it really took me by suprise at first because I had noticed how segregated my uni was.

I don't think class has as much to do with it as people think, it's more to do with how you're raised. Education will play a big part but it's really upto the parents.

I suppose I'm a bit unusual in the UK in that I was raised with very old school Indian values but I didn't grow up with that many asian friends (bar one guy who's just like me), I'm always very annoyed when I meet people who basically grew up in asian ghettos, it's not their fault in a way but they make no effort to make white friends and basically have no interest in integration. Frankly I can totally understand this sort of behaviour irritating british residents, why come over if you have no intention of integrating? Similarly if you come over to this country and the first place you live is burnley or blackburn, you're probably not going to be too keen on integration, but when people teach their kids to be the same it makes me really really angry, it gives them no chance at living a really normal life in the UK and cripples them socially and as a result professionally.

Honestly I don't think the UK is successful as a multicultural society, how many Asians hang around with white friends as adults and vice versa? The same goes with basically any ethnicity. It makes me feel very priviliged to have friends from all races and backgrounds.

P.S. call centres piss me off for a few reasons, they call at unreasonable hours, but most of all because they misrepresent themselves, it makes me really angry when they call themselves John or Rachel when they're clearly a Rahul or Kalyani, it's frankly insulting and degrading that they have to do this, just be honest, when I can be bothered I call people up on this and ask them where they're calling from, as it's often Bangalore it can lead to some interesting conversations (my family is almost all in Bangalore).
 
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BoyBrumby

Englishman
That is clearly not great for communities and a society though is it? These are clearly problems that need to be addressed at both ends.

It isnt simple enough for one side to criticise the 'British worker' for being lazy or one side to criticise foreign worker for stealing jobs and freezing out locals.

As with most things like this there are bigger forces regarding communities in play and both sides are culpable to an extent.
No and I made no suggestion to the contrary. When speaking in general terms one arrives at generalisations. However the bottom line for companies is productivity for pounds spent and, remembering this is an admitted generalisation, most companies get more for their money with foreign labour (and in particular east european labour) than they do with British.

This obviously freezes out the locals and causes resentment, especially in the current climate. &, as I alluded to earlier, Fred's comments, whilst innocuous & in no way an anti immigration rant, could be used for malign forces for their own ends.
 

four_or_six

Cricketer Of The Year
I just read the cricinfo article and wtf... why on earth is he ever doing an interview with Piers Morgan?! That's surely asking for trouble.
 

Uppercut

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Then we have what unfortunately is probably the general public, people who will be candid with you at the work place or even socially, but will actually think deep down that british jobs should be for british (white) people and that you should **** off back to India or wherever, it's really not hard to tell, and often pretty depressing when you realise people are like this. You can always see from how they react to you within a group of people, or how they try and compete against you.
You really think that, eh?

Very interesting points you make, btw. It's a completely different analysis of your everyday life to how i look at mine.
 

fredfertang

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
It's Neil Fairbrother who has got questions to answer - what the hell is he doing allowing that to happen?
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I really hate the term 'multi-cultural'. It's just become a somewhat oxymoronic buzzword to make areas where there's just a general mish mash sound good. The odd city genuinely does have different distinct cultures, but most don't. I do laugh at idiot politicians who call somewhere like Middlesbrough multi-cultural. In the past it will have had a culture, an underlying set of characteristics people could recognise. Now like most places it is in an identity crisis. There's only small pockets and icons that make you give you a feeling of culture. If you flood any town, city, area with immigrants it will take away from the culture because they're different and that takes away from the distinct identity you need to have a culture. Of course they *can* contribute to culture - as they become part of the area or introduce their own culture, but it doesn't happen that much in England. For instance there are Asian pockets in most big towns - but there's not much real identity to go with it. You might get the clothing and the odd restaurant (most of which you'd get everywhere anyway) and that's about it. It doesn't make you feel like you're in an Asian country, yet it doesn't feel like you're in a specific place in England either. Most English towns these days suffer from having no real identity.

Anyway that news story has nothing vaguely controversial in it.
 

andruid

Cricketer Of The Year
He has done nothing wrong.

It is BARE MINIMUM if you work in a foreign country to speak the ****ing language.

Having said that, Flintoff doesn't speak English too well either. :p
Which is why so many Educational institues are cuuting there language skill courses.:dry:
 

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