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The Independent's Dream Australian XI

bagapath

International Captain
alternate XI

bill ponsford
matt hayden
charlie mccartney
allan border
steve waugh
jack gregory
ian healy (wk)
alan davidson
richie benaud (c)
tiger oreilly
glenn mcgrath
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
alternate XI

bill ponsford
matt hayden
charlie mccartney
allan border
steve waugh
jack gregory
ian healy (wk)
alan davidson
richie benaud (c)
tiger oreilly
glenn mcgrath
Gregory's suffering a nose-bleed at 6, for mine. Would be tempted to give Benaud the flick, bring in someone like a Warwick Armstrong, and drop Jack down to seven. Or swap Benaud for Spofforth or Turner and go for Neil Harvey.

Maybe:
Ponsford
Hayden
McCartney
Harvey
Border
Waugh
Gregory/Spofforth (if Spofforth, drop him done to 10, with everyone else moving up)
Healy+
Davidson
O'Reilly
McGrath
 
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Matt79

Global Moderator
And it would beat your XI. What's your point? :p

Yeah, um... drop one of Gregory or Spofforth. Will edit the above.
 

bagapath

International Captain
dont want to compromise on the balance of 4+1 bowling attack

so i would rather go for

Ponsford
Hayden
Harvey
Border
Waugh
Un gran barco (c)
Healy+
Davidson
O'Reilly
Spofforth
McGrath
 

wfdu_ben91

International 12th Man
Victor Trumper / Arthur Morris / Bill Ponsford
Matthew Hayden
Sir Donald Bradman
Greg Chappell
Steve Waugh / Allan Border
Ricky Ponting
Adam Gilchrist (wk)
Keith Miller
Shane Warne (c)
Dennis Lillee
Glenn McGrath

These things are so hard. Hayden's the obvious selection for the Opening slot and I'd rather have Border in the team then Trumper, Morris or Ponsford. For example, I like the look of this team better because Australia's top 6-7 batsman are all in the team, even though Punter has never opened.

Matthew Hayden
Ricky Ponting
Sir Donald Bradman
Greg Chappell
Steve Waugh
Allan Border
Adam Gilchrist (wk)
Keith Miller
Shane Warne (c)
Dennis Lillee
Glenn McGrath
 

wfdu_ben91

International 12th Man
hmmm, hard to justify his selection over the two that are in, unless the match is being played in Australia on flatter decks, or in India.
Only Australian opener to have finished with a career average of over 50, one of the best 100s per match converison rates in the history of game, payed a piviotal role in Australia's dominance over the past decade, has made 100's allover the world and considering that the two that were selected never played in the subcontient. Probably wouldn't find many other batsman who worked as hard on their game as what Hayden did.
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
Yeah, I know all that and rate him really highly, but by the same token, he doesn't have the same record of success against top quality seam bowling in helpful conditions, or of brilliance on dodgy pitches. As I said, if you were certain he'd get the kind of conditions that he excelled in during his career, put in him, if you don't know what kind of conditions he would be facing, leave him out.

He faced a more poor attacks compared to some others.
 

pasag

RTDAS
First and second XI:

Trumper
Ponsford
Bradman
Chappell
Ponting
Miller
Gilchrist
Warne
Lindwall
Lillee
McGrath

vs

Hayden
Lawry
McCabe
Harvey
Waugh
Border
Healy
Davidson
O'Reilly
Grimmett
Spofforth

Ponting overtakes Harvey for the first time for me and I was pretty close to putting Hayden in the first XI.
 

wfdu_ben91

International 12th Man
Yeah, I know all that and rate him really highly, but by the same token, he doesn't have the same record of success against top quality seam bowling in helpful conditions, or of brilliance on dodgy pitches. As I said, if you were certain he'd get the kind of conditions that he excelled in during his career, put in him, if you don't know what kind of conditions he would be facing, leave him out.

He faced a more poor attacks compared to some others.
Hayden made a fair few 100's in low-scoring affairs though and in difficult conditions such as Sharjah vs Pak, MCG 06, Oval 05, 130 in Sri Lanka, Johannasburg 2002, entire Indian series 2001 on dustbowls, ICC World XI match, etc.

That hundred he scored in Sharjah is more impressive on paper aswell, against quality bowling unit in Waqar, Shoaib, Saqlain, Kaneria & Razzaq. The average per wicket in that game was 13.17 and only one other 100 (in the history of the game) has been scored where the average per wicket has been lower, and that was in 1889.

Cricinfo Statsguru - Test matches - Batting records
 

bagapath

International Captain
First and second XI:

Trumper
Ponsford
Bradman
Chappell
Ponting
Miller
Gilchrist
Warne
Lindwall
Lillee
McGrath

vs

Hayden
Lawry
McCabe
Harvey
Waugh
Border
Healy
Davidson
O'Reilly
Grimmett
Spofforth

Ponting overtakes Harvey for the first time for me and I was pretty close to putting Hayden in the first XI.
your second team is one pacer short. 2+2 is not a safe option. i would take out s.waugh and bring in noble - was monty a medium pacer or an off spinner? - or jack gregory who is undoubtedly australia's second greatest fast bowling all-rounder
 

Slifer

International Captain
The Independent magazine has come up with its dream australian XI

An authentic Australian idol. Victor Trumper's Test average of 39.04 does not...

trumper
morris
bradman (c)
ponting
g.chappell
miller
gilchrist (wk)
lindwall
warne
lillee
grimmett

i love the team. simply unbeatable, IMO

Great All time team, expect them to beat all other All time teams home and away (except possibly for WI away and India away). I dont rate Hayden very highly but his inclusion and the possible inclusion of Mcgrath over Grimmet would have been my only changes. Still best balanced all time team of all
 

Matt79

Global Moderator
Hayden made a fair few 100's in low-scoring affairs though and in difficult conditions such as Sharjah vs Pak, MCG 06, Oval 05, 130 in Sri Lanka, Johannasburg 2002, entire Indian series 2001 on dustbowls, ICC World XI match, etc.

That hundred he scored in Sharjah is more impressive on paper aswell, against quality bowling unit in Waqar, Shoaib, Saqlain, Kaneria & Razzaq. The average per wicket in that game was 13.17 and only one other 100 (in the history of the game) has been scored where the average per wicket has been lower, and that was in 1889.

Cricinfo Statsguru - Test matches - Batting records
Yeah, have cited that innings more than a few times to his knockers here. But Trumper would have been better on wet wickets or in extremely bowler friendly conditions. It's like saying that a Ferrari is a faster car to have than a Humvee. It's true, so long as you don't have to go off-road. But if you don't know what you're going to have to try and drive across, I'd rather than Humvee.
 

Shri

Mr. Glass
Hayden made a fair few 100's in low-scoring affairs though and in difficult conditions such as Sharjah vs Pak, MCG 06, Oval 05, 130 in Sri Lanka, Johannasburg 2002, entire Indian series 2001 on dustbowls, ICC World XI match, etc.

That hundred he scored in Sharjah is more impressive on paper aswell, against quality bowling unit in Waqar, Shoaib, Saqlain, Kaneria & Razzaq. The average per wicket in that game was 13.17 and only one other 100 (in the history of the game) has been scored where the average per wicket has been lower, and that was in 1889.

Cricinfo Statsguru - Test matches - Batting records
Waqar Younis only bowled 8 overs and Razzaq was retired hurt after 10 overs in that game.:ph34r:
 
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