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CMJ's top 100
- Thread starter bagapath
- Start date
Uppercut
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Haha, it's often a feature of someone's bias towards a particular team that they perceive bias in everyone else against them. It's quite comical actually. The sign that you're doing a good job as a football pundit is when you get a similar amount of accusations of bias from all sides.
Daryl Harper
School Boy/Girl Captain
Pietersen at 60, Flintoff at 82 
Say no more really.
Say no more really.
SJS
Hall of Fame Member
ESPN chose THe Legends of Cricket a few years ago (2001 I think). Here are the 50 finalist cricketers they chose in order of rank from which the top 25 became part of their Legends of Cricket DVD Set.
and here is the panel of judges who chose those names.
Here is the method of ranking/points.
- Sir Donald Bradman
- Sir Garfield Sobers
- Sir Vivian Richards
- Shane Warne
- Sir Jack Hobbs
- Dennis Lillee
- Sachin Tendulkar
- Imran Khan
- Walter Hammond
- Sunil Gavaskar
- Sir Ian Botham
- Sir Richard Hadlee
- Keith Miller
- WG Grace
- Graeme Pollock
- Malcolm Marshall
- Greg Chappell
- George Headley
- Sir Frank Worrell
- Sir Leonard Hutton
- Wasim Akram
- Kapil Dev
- Steve Waugh
- Barry Richards
- Allan Border
- Sydney Barnes
- Everton Weekes
- Wilfred Rhodes
- Herbert Sutcliffe
- Bill O'Reilly
- Courtney Walsh
- Mike Procter
- Fred Trueman
- Brian Lara
- Clyde Walcott
- Richie Benaud
- Joel Garner
- Andy Roberts
- Curtly Ambrose
- Michael Holding
- Glenn McGrath
- Jim Laker
- Clarrie Grimmett
- Javed Miandad
- Ray Lindwall
- Victor Trumper
- Alan Knott
- Allan Donald
- Alan Davidson
- Bishan Bedi
and here is the panel of judges who chose those names.
- Wasim Akram
- Sunil Gavaskar
- Richie Benaud
- Sir Richard Hadlee
- Dickie Bird
- Michael Holding
- Allan Border
- John Knowles
- Ian Botham
- Robin Marlar
- Ian Chappell
- Christopher Martin-Jenkins
- Tony Cozier
- Mike Procter
- Martin Crowe
Here is the method of ranking/points.
The Judging Panel - A distinguished panel of 15 cricket authorities determined the Top 50 cricketers of all time. Panelists were asked to list in order, their top 50 players. The votes were then collated in the following way. The player voted as No. 1 on a list scored 26 points, No. 2 scored 25 points No. 3 24 points right through to position 25 who scored 2 points. A vote for a player in the 50 - 26 positions scored a single point. In addition a point was scored for each vote secured, for example if all 15 panelists voted for a player regardless of position he would score an additional 15 points. The final list was compiled in the resulting points order.
SJS
Hall of Fame Member
Here is the list of the 13 who made the ESPN's legends list and have not figured in CMJ's 11-100 - along with their rank in the ESPN list.
Its to be remembered that Murali and Gilchrist were not ;ess than halfway through their great careers which should account for their absence in the ESPN list.
So it is fair to assume the top ten would come from these 13 and maybe Gilchrist is a candidate too. The problem is, whichever of the other four CMJ leaves out, he will have left out a great cricketer. It just further highlights the ultimate futility of taking these lists for anything more than a subjective indication and anything we may want to do ourselves should be seen, and allowed to be seen, in similar light.
- Donald Bradman (1)
- Garfield Sobers (2)
- Vivian Richards (3)
- Shane Warne (4)
- Jack Hobbs (5)
- Sachin Tendulkar (7)
- Walter Hammond (9)
- WG Grace (14)
- Sydney Barnes (26)
- Mike Procter (32)
- Joel Garner (37)
- Andy Roberts (38)
- Alan Davidson (49)
Its to be remembered that Murali and Gilchrist were not ;ess than halfway through their great careers which should account for their absence in the ESPN list.
So it is fair to assume the top ten would come from these 13 and maybe Gilchrist is a candidate too. The problem is, whichever of the other four CMJ leaves out, he will have left out a great cricketer. It just further highlights the ultimate futility of taking these lists for anything more than a subjective indication and anything we may want to do ourselves should be seen, and allowed to be seen, in similar light.
wfdu_ben91
International 12th Man
For me:
IN
Sir Donald Bradman
WG Grace
Sir Garfield Sobers
Sir Jack Hobbs
Shane Warne
Sachin Tendulkar
Imran Khan
Sir Vivian Richards
Joel Garner
Allan Davidson
Peter Pollock
Matthew Hayden
Andy Roberts
Inzamam-ul-Haq
Derek Underwood
Bill Johnston
Wes Hall
Bruce Mitchell
Dudley Nourse
Clem Hill
Sir Conrad Hunte
Doug Walters
Adam Gilchrist
Bob Willis
Arthur Morris
Sydney Barnes
Anil Kumble
Mike Procter
Hanif Mohammad
Walter Hammond
OUT
Mahela Jayawardene
Andrew Flintoff
Graeme Smith
Arthur Shrewsbury
Warwick Armstrong
David Gower
Martin Donnelly
KS Ranjitsinhji
Frank Woolley
Harold Larwood
Learie Constantine
C.B. Fry
Gilbert Jessop
Bhagwat Chandrasekhar
C.T.B. Turner
Ian Healy
Vinoo Mankad
Sanath Jayasuriya
Ted Dexter
Zaheer Abbas
Brian Statham
Maurice Tate
TOP 8
Sir Donald Bradman
WG Grace
Sir Garfield Sobers
Sir Jack Hobbs
Shane Warne
Sachin Tendulkar
Imran Khan
Sir Vivian Richards
Too difficult to decide on a top 10, about 10 other players could easily slide into the last 2 positions but the top 8 is fairly obvious. I probably forgot a few obvious IN's aswell but meh.
IN
Sir Donald Bradman
WG Grace
Sir Garfield Sobers
Sir Jack Hobbs
Shane Warne
Sachin Tendulkar
Imran Khan
Sir Vivian Richards
Joel Garner
Allan Davidson
Peter Pollock
Matthew Hayden
Andy Roberts
Inzamam-ul-Haq
Derek Underwood
Bill Johnston
Wes Hall
Bruce Mitchell
Dudley Nourse
Clem Hill
Sir Conrad Hunte
Doug Walters
Adam Gilchrist
Bob Willis
Arthur Morris
Sydney Barnes
Anil Kumble
Mike Procter
Hanif Mohammad
Walter Hammond
OUT
Mahela Jayawardene
Andrew Flintoff
Graeme Smith
Arthur Shrewsbury
Warwick Armstrong
David Gower
Martin Donnelly
KS Ranjitsinhji
Frank Woolley
Harold Larwood
Learie Constantine
C.B. Fry
Gilbert Jessop
Bhagwat Chandrasekhar
C.T.B. Turner
Ian Healy
Vinoo Mankad
Sanath Jayasuriya
Ted Dexter
Zaheer Abbas
Brian Statham
Maurice Tate
TOP 8
Sir Donald Bradman
WG Grace
Sir Garfield Sobers
Sir Jack Hobbs
Shane Warne
Sachin Tendulkar
Imran Khan
Sir Vivian Richards
Too difficult to decide on a top 10, about 10 other players could easily slide into the last 2 positions but the top 8 is fairly obvious. I probably forgot a few obvious IN's aswell but meh.
bagapath
International Captain
sjs. the top 10 has already been revealed. plese go back a page or two for the link.
my problem with the ESPN legends list is that it doesnt have murali and ponting. since the time it was created in 2002 gilchrist has also attained greatness. i can think of other names too who probably belong in the top 50 but were left out of the list like hayden, s.pollock, greenidge. even if you are going to ignore these three names, murali, ponting and gilchrist should definitely be included at the expense of, maybe, bedi, knott and walsh.
my problem with the ESPN legends list is that it doesnt have murali and ponting. since the time it was created in 2002 gilchrist has also attained greatness. i can think of other names too who probably belong in the top 50 but were left out of the list like hayden, s.pollock, greenidge. even if you are going to ignore these three names, murali, ponting and gilchrist should definitely be included at the expense of, maybe, bedi, knott and walsh.
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
Nooooooooo!
Beleg
International Regular
zaremba,
do you honestly think the achievements of the aforementioned are comparable with the likes of jayasuria, inzamam and de silva?
i can understand your outrage but it ought to be directed at those who compare modern era cricketers with giants from the turn of the 19th century.
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
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nightprowler10
Global Moderator
Well I had an article in the offing but you went and pissed on my title!
I know not many rate him here on CW but I though Inzamam was a glaring exception as well.
Slifer
International Captain
I think these lists are futile TBH except for the obvious exceptions (Bradman, Grace, Sobers, Hobbs) beyond these players i think everyone else is pretty much down to personal preference and what one considers when one speaks of greatness. As pure cricketers for example Imran> Warne, Viv, Hobbs etc but for whatever reason, he's often ranked beneath these cricketers.
bagapath
International Captain
interesting. actually at his peak imran was considered an out and out match winner for pak; the bowler everyone feared, the skipper universally respected and the batsman who occasionally turned the matches around. but still i am comfortable with viv and hobbs ranked above him. and i think warne was his equal. what is slightly difficult for me to digest is mcgrath and marshall ranked above khan. they were great pacers alright but imran was that and more. wonder what was on CMJ's mind.
agree inzamam has done enough to be a strong contender for top 50 and a certainty for top 100. but when ponting gets ranked at 47 and hayden is not even there it doesnt shock me to see inzy being left out too.
wfdu_ben91
International 12th Man
Warne's ranked ahead of Imran because Warne was the greatest spinner of alltime and spinners bowl more overs then what pace bowlers do and in that aspect Warne has got Imran's batting covered as far as the allround package goes (not saying Warne is a better batsman).
As far as CB Fry and Maurice Tate go, I've never heard of neither of them. As far as my two contrasting lists go, I took more time to think. Remember, it's easier to pick the top 100 cricketers of alltime then it is to put them in order from the best to the least.
As far as CB Fry and Maurice Tate go, I've never heard of neither of them. As far as my two contrasting lists go, I took more time to think. Remember, it's easier to pick the top 100 cricketers of alltime then it is to put them in order from the best to the least.
KiWiNiNjA
International Coach
Yeah, you are pretty bias. Very honest of you to say so.
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
If you've not heard of them, and you get a spare minute, look 'em up - they make for good reading. Particularly CB Fry, who was a pretty extraordinary player and generally regarded as one of the greatest all-round sportsmen in history.
Fair enough!
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You're right, of course. Imran brings so much more to a side than any specialist fast bowler ever could because top-class all-rounders are the best position possible in cricket. But i still don't mind Marshall and McGrath being ranked above him because if you take "better cricketer" too literally you'll end up with a build-up of all-rounders at the top. Being the greatest bowler of all time, as Marshall quite possibly was, has got to count for something.
To turn the question to something you'll find it harder to object to, Tendulkar is placed above Kallis. I've no doubt that Kallis, with his 250 test wickets and bucket-hands, brings more value to a side than Tendulkar does, but I still want Tendulkar ranked above him in such lists. If being the best batsman of his generation (and leading run-scorer of all time) means he's ranked higher than players who literally make a bigger contribution to a side then I don't have a problem with that.
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
AWTA 100%. This is one of several reasons why I find Richard's "McGrath is unquestionably a greater bowler than Warne, but Warne is unquestionably a greater cricketer" argument, er, questionable.
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bagapath
International Captain
what you say sounds sensible. but then why is lillee ranked below imran, miller and botham? and hadlee, even further down? of course i dont expect to see a list by someone else that totally matches mine. i like CMJ's list for whatever it is; just trying to understand his logic here, thats all.
Slifer
International Captain
Corrections, Shane Warne is arguably the greatest spinner of all time but who cares, he wasnt a better bowler than Imran or matchwinner. Plus Imran actually showed up (unlike Warne) against the best team of his time (WI) whereas Shane Warne went missing against his greatest nemisis (India).