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Thread: CMJ's top 100

  1. #31
    RTDAS pasag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJS View Post
    I agree with nine. I dont think Gilchrist will be there. I do not see Andy Roberts in the 90 (unless I missed it somehow) and he will be there.
    Would be very suprised if Gilchrist wasn't there.
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  2. #32
    SJS
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagapath View Post
    keith miller is at no.16. i am not sure who else he would choose for the top positions other than the 10 i've listed out. looks pretty obvious to me.
    You seriously think Gilchrist is an undisputed top ten player of all time ??

    But you may be right since he has chosen he is choosing his top cricketers and not just in one discipline. He could have given much greater weightage to Gilly's enormous batting talents which is more difficult to argue against.

    But I am amazed to see Andy Roberts (and even Garner) out of that list and Walsh in.
    Last edited by SJS; 16-05-2009 at 08:41 PM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Just always makes me ask why people bother. I can't see any use whatsoever in such exact things.

    I like general lists - like categorising the seam bowlers into various categories with no exact rankings - but this one-to-hundred sort of thing is, IMO, completely and totally pointless.


    Lists serve only one purpose, help retired people pass the time .

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJS View Post


    Lists serve only one purpose, help retired people pass the time .
    Just to prove that sentence correct and as the leading "retiree" of the forum let me try and find " faults" (read missing pieces) in CMJ's list.

    Lets take Aussie cricketer's first. There are four all rounders included by CMJ. Here they are in the order ranked.

    1. Keith Miller (Australia)
    2. Richie Benaud (Australia)
    3. Jack Gregory (Australia)
    4. Warwick Armstrong (Australia)


    It is not possible to argue with the credentials of these four worthies to be in that let but . . . . no Monty Noble !!

    and what about the man called the WG of Australia . . . George Giffen. I know George Giffen is not a name many of you may be familiar with but then so is Arthur Shrewsbury

    Then we come to Australian Keepers.

    There is just one name in that list. . . Ian Healy - a great keeper no doubt but what, what, what ??? only one wicket keeper (with Gilchrist maybe still to come in the last ten) from the land of great wicket keepers ? . . . what about these guys (listed in the order of their appearance on the cricketing firmament)

    • Blackham
    • Kelly
    • Oldfield
    • Tallon
    • Grout
    • Marsh


    I suspect CMJ is not a great fan of wicket keeping skills and does not believe they make great keepers. One may disagree but then one cant deny him his opinions/preferences as he has included Stewart, Sangakarra, Walcott, Ames and Andy Flower all top class batsmen (and Gilchrist by common consensus is just the last list away). I listed all the wicket keepers in the world and then ranked them by Test centuries scored and guess which six came on the top - Stewart, Sangakarra, Walcott, Ames, Andy Flower and, of course, Gilchrist.

    So CMJ wanted wicket keepers who could score Test centuries more often (kidding). Next in that list I made was Kamran Akmal (6 centuries) and then Boucher Knott and Dujon with five. Healy is next with four along with Waite and Moin. So okay, we conced that he picked Knott and Healy from these two subgroups for their superior keeping skills besides Test century scoring capability. I cant tell you how happy I felt at having solved this particular mystery

    I dont like mysteries . . . not in cricket lists anyway

    .... to be continued


  5. #35
    International Captain bagapath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJS View Post
    You seriously think Gilchrist is an undisputed top ten player of all time ??
    no he is not. but if he is in someone's top ten i will not be too surprised. there are some greats, steve waugh and michael holding come to my mind, who are absolute champions but they would not be in anyone's top ten because there are even superior players in their disciplines. gilchrist, unlike them, is one of a kind. combining his devastating batsmanship with very good wicket keeping skills made him a very special member of the most successful team in history. he filled in the role of an all rounder so successfully and so entertainingly for so long that it is possible to single him out as one of the most important players of all time. he would be in my top 25.

  6. #36
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    I'm sorry I just can't take this list seriously, Ambrose at 51 and Marshall at 11....utterly ridiculous. If I was making an all time team, I think Marshall would be the first on my list, above even the Don, undoubtedly the best quick ever.

    Guessing his top 10 will feature Bradman, Sobers, Murali, Tendulkar, Hobbs, Warne, Grace, Richards, not sure about the other 2 spots.

    Dissappointed at no Sehwag. No Davidson is very suprising too (unless he's in the top 10 which is too high). Dexter above Abbas, Donald, Harvey, Smith, Merchant? CB Fry shockingly low IMO. No Hazare will raise an Indian eyebrow or 2. Flintoff shouldn't be anywhere near that list considering the other names on it. Who the hell would want Flintoff in their team above Pollock, Donald, Holding or Statham? Think Saqlain was a better bowler than Qadir but that's probably just me. Gower and Jayasuriya placed so highly on aesthetic value, no way were they better than some of the names below them. Jon Snow very high IMO. No Hayden either is very harsh. I'd expect an England bias but some of the choices are hard to justify, e.g Bedser above Akram?
    Last edited by oitoitoi; 17-05-2009 at 05:01 AM.

  7. #37
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend andyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oitoitoi View Post
    I'm sorry I just can't take this list seriously, Ambrose at 51 and Marshall at 11....utterly ridiculous. If I was making an all time team, I think Marshall would be the first on my list, above even the Don, undoubtedly the best quick ever.
    Quote Originally Posted by flibbertyjibber View Post
    Only a bunch of convicts having been beaten 3-0 and gone 9 tests without a win and won just 1 in 11 against England could go into the home series saying they will win. England will win in Australia again this winter as they are a better side which they have shown this summer. 3-0 doesn't lie girls.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyc View Post
    You only need so much batting, Marshall was possibly the only quick ever who could genuinely do it all and be devastating on all surfaces. That said Don would comfortably be no.2 on my list.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by oitoitoi View Post
    Bedser above Akram?
    like most indians i am a big wasim akram fan. the television age in india coincided with his career so perfectly that the first great fast bowler most of the country regularly watched on tv was wasim. but i understand cmj's logic here in ranking bedser above him. dont want to create another stats based discussion here; simply put akram's record is not that hot if you apply certain parameters of greatness stringently. he is among the top 15 or 20 great pacers of all time; will struggle to break into the top 10 though. so would bedser. but he might sneak in one place ahead of wasim.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by pasag View Post
    Would be very suprised if Gilchrist wasn't there.
    Gilchist over Murali in all time top ten? You must be joking.
    Member of the Sanga fan club. (Ugh! it took me so long to become a real fan of his)

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by oitoitoi View Post
    You only need so much batting, Marshall was possibly the only quick ever who could genuinely do it all and be devastating on all surfaces. That said Don would comfortably be no.2 on my list.
    Yeah, but there are a few bowlers who are arguably more valuable and better then Marshall. Glenn McGrath acchieved everything that Marshall did and never struggled in any conditions, and he bowled in a batsman-friendly whilst Marshall didn't. Yet, Shane Warne, who played alongside McGrath is considered the greater cricketer. It's little things such as this, which disables any arguement of any cricketer being better then Bradman, because no-one else reached or came close to the same stature as Bradman did. Jacques Kallis is arguably better then Garry Sobers (you wouldn't consider Kallis to be the best cricketer of alltime), Muralitharan is arguably better then Warne, a number of openers are arguably better then Jack Hobbs, etc, just to name a few more examples.

    No one comes close to Bradman, as he is twice as good as the next best batsman of alltime and probably twice as good as the next best player of alltime. To average almost 100 over such a long period of time, without any deteriation is merely unbelievable. No other player has come close to something as spectacular. Get someone to average close to 10 with the ball for 20 years or average over 50 (with the bat) and under 20 (with the ball), like Bradman averaged 100 for and then you can't stake an arguement for someone being better then Bradman. Bradman is not only easily the best cricketer of alltime, but probably the best player out of any form of sport.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by oitoitoi View Post
    Guessing his top 10 will feature Bradman, Sobers, Murali, Tendulkar, Hobbs, Warne, Grace, Richards, not sure about the other 2 spots.
    Murali is at 13 on CMJ's list.

  13. #43
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    No complaints from me regarding his 11-100 selections.

    In the end CMJ is attempting to fit 150+ more than worthy cricketers into 100 places. For sure he may have the order wrong at times. But is it truly an insult for Bedser to be 5 places higher than Wasim? Or for Muralitharan to just miss out on a top 10 spot? Just shows that we have been blessed with a wonderful amount of fantastic cricketers over the years.

    In the end it is just one cricket writers opinion. What better way to create debate than to include Walsh and leave out Roberts. Or only place a limited amount of specialist wicket keepers. Creates a discussion point and an issue where there is no correct answer.

  14. #44
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    forgot about roberts, definitely should be there. not having marshall in your top 10 is just criminal to me, but i see where you're coming from.

  15. #45
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    This list shows a strong bias towards contemporary players and a lack of appreciation for cricket history. Sanath Jayasuriya, Mahela Jayawardene, Andrew Flintoff and Kevin Pietersen at the expense of golden age greats like George Hirst, Stanley Jackson, Tom Richardson, Monty Noble, Aubrey Faulkner, Barton King and Clem Hill? No George Giffen – the Australian WG?

    No appreciation for the legends of early cricket such as Fuller Pilch, Billy Beldham, Alfred Mynn, George Freeman and Fred Lillywhite.

    No appreciation for the greatest wicket keepers of all time such as Jack Blackham, Don Tallon, Godfrey Evans or Bob Taylor.

    Courtney Walsh ahead of Joel Garner or Andy Roberts? No Mike Proctor or Alan Davidson?

    Not a very comprehensive list IMO.
    Last edited by a massive zebra; 17-05-2009 at 04:24 PM.
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