Goughy
Hall of Fame Member
I consider him a cricketer that would more likely have had success at Test level than Bicknell.
Though, clearly, Ive answered a different question to the one you asked.
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Insiders and Outsiders
- Thread starter Goughy
- Start date
Though, clearly, Ive answered a different question to the one you asked.
Insiders:
- Philip Hughes: A wonderful opener retires, he's a 20-year old with runs on the board - the selectors gamble, he goes to SA and cleans up - but maybe I'm speaking too soon...
- Steve Waugh: Came in at a time when Australia were strapped for alternatives, was allowed to be no more than OK up until 1989, at which point he took off. He was only dropped once, I believe (even though he would've come close in the 80's)
- VVS Laxman: Mohammad Azharuddin is forced out; Laxman makes sure his presence isn't missed over the long-term
- Shane Warne: Came in when there was a dearth of spin-bowling in the world
- Dale Steyn: Obviously not a like-for-like replacement, but he replaced Pollock superbly when Pollock began to wane
Ones already mentioned are Brian Lara, Viv Richards, etc. Guys like Amit Mishra could conceivably fit into this category given time.
Outsiders:
- Andy Bichel: Was messed about constantly, would've played more than 19 Tests for a multitude of other countries
- Michael Kasprowicz: Ditto, although perhaps moreso
- Darren Lehmann: A fine batsman who fell victim to some questionable selectorial decisions
- Brad Hodge: Has some technical flaws, but should've played more Tests than he has
- Sylvester Clarke: A left-field one - if he was 20-25 years younger, he'd have had an illustrious career
- Philip Hughes: A wonderful opener retires, he's a 20-year old with runs on the board - the selectors gamble, he goes to SA and cleans up - but maybe I'm speaking too soon...
- Steve Waugh: Came in at a time when Australia were strapped for alternatives, was allowed to be no more than OK up until 1989, at which point he took off. He was only dropped once, I believe (even though he would've come close in the 80's)
- VVS Laxman: Mohammad Azharuddin is forced out; Laxman makes sure his presence isn't missed over the long-term
- Shane Warne: Came in when there was a dearth of spin-bowling in the world
- Dale Steyn: Obviously not a like-for-like replacement, but he replaced Pollock superbly when Pollock began to wane
Ones already mentioned are Brian Lara, Viv Richards, etc. Guys like Amit Mishra could conceivably fit into this category given time.
Outsiders:
- Andy Bichel: Was messed about constantly, would've played more than 19 Tests for a multitude of other countries
- Michael Kasprowicz: Ditto, although perhaps moreso
- Darren Lehmann: A fine batsman who fell victim to some questionable selectorial decisions
- Brad Hodge: Has some technical flaws, but should've played more Tests than he has
- Sylvester Clarke: A left-field one - if he was 20-25 years younger, he'd have had an illustrious career
Goughy
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah, could you imagine the opportunies some of the 2nd and 3rd tier West Indian quicks from the 70s and 80s would have in todays WI XI
Noble One
International Vice-Captain
When such cricketers as Powell have been given so many numerous opportunities over the past years. Imagine if cricketers such as Patterson, Gray, Clarke etc etc still played. First name on team-sheet.
Nothing more dissapointing that to look back on a brilliant cricketer and be left wondering "what if?". You only wish every cricketer of talent was given the opportunity.
TT Boy
Hall of Fame Member
He didn't replace Polly, Morne did. And he didn't even replace Pollock as South Africa's spearhead, Ntini was that before Steyn.
Well, IIRC, Pollock was already fading out of the side when Steyn came into prominence. It is true that Ntini replaced Pollock as a spearhead first, but then Ntini played a back-seat to Steyn after 2006/07 (when Pollock was still playing, if not always regularly). Speaking of 2006/07, didn't Steyn replace Pollock once versus Pakistan?
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
In terms of Tests, Pollock was a fixture 1995/96-2006/07 (played always when fit), Ntini has been a fixture since 2000/01, Steyn since the very end of 2005/06.
I'd say the spearhead was Donald up to 2001, Pollock maybe briefly in 2001/02 (not that he was that successful), Ntini from 2002/03 to 2006/07 and Steyn from 2007/08 to the current time. Pollock was almost always the complimentary rather than leading bowler. Not that he wasn't neccessarily ever the best, but he was always the straight man to someone else's more-expensive-wicket-looker (not neccessarily unacceptably expensive BTW).
I'd say the spearhead was Donald up to 2001, Pollock maybe briefly in 2001/02 (not that he was that successful), Ntini from 2002/03 to 2006/07 and Steyn from 2007/08 to the current time. Pollock was almost always the complimentary rather than leading bowler. Not that he wasn't neccessarily ever the best, but he was always the straight man to someone else's more-expensive-wicket-looker (not neccessarily unacceptably expensive BTW).
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Waugh was dropped in 1990/91 and only recalled in 1992/93. Truth was he was very average, apart from 1989, for the first 8 years of his Test career - it was only because he could bowl that he stayed in the side as long as he did.
He only cracked Test cricket in New Zealand in 1992/93 - by which time he was 28. Same series, incidentally, that Shane Warne cracked it, and the one before Ian Healy as a batsman did.
Andre
International Regular
How about Darren Pattinson for an outsider? Called up to the English squad after a great start to the year, bowled reasonably in his only Test (all things considered) and made a scapegoat - more than likely will never play for England again.
I'd argue he's a better bowler than the likes of Amjad Khan and Bresnan, but will never get the chance to prove it due to his association to the Test and side he played in, and the controversy it caused.
There has been worse bowlers to take, say, 50+ Test wickets.
I'd argue he's a better bowler than the likes of Amjad Khan and Bresnan, but will never get the chance to prove it due to his association to the Test and side he played in, and the controversy it caused.
There has been worse bowlers to take, say, 50+ Test wickets.
Manee
Cricketer Of The Year
MacGill in ODIs seems like a wasted talent, to me. He took 196 OD wickets overall at 22.52, going for 4.98 runs an over and striking at 27.0, an extremely valuable asset. Took 4/19 off 10 in his ODI debut too!
I do.
Okay, took off for the first time...
There.
From what I remember:
1985/86 - Terrible
1986/87 - 1988/89 - OK, though he was a useful bowler
1989-1989/90 - Spectacular
1989/90-1990/91 - Crap, so he got dropped
1991-1992/93 - Intermittently played, not much success
1993 - 2001 - Spectacular success
2001/02 - 2002/03 - Out-of-form
2003-2003/04 - Was pretty good, although he saved his best for minnows
Noble One
International Vice-Captain
Still remains the leading wicket-taker in Australian domestic history. Remarkable domestic record, averaging two wickets per game.
Deserved to be given more of an opportunity for Australia. That 4/19 on debut was a brilliant display of attacking leg-spin bowling. Australian selectors obviously unwilling to play two leg-spinners in the same lineup, and by the time Warne had retired from ODI's, Brad Hogg had taken the step up.
Can understand partially why the selectors where always unwilling to turn to MacGill. Horrible economy rate for a domestic spinner. He did take alot of wickets for NSW against the tail-end. Also offered nothing with the bat and was a liability in the field.
Langeveldt
Soutie
This
Insider - Graham Napier, David Warner
Outsider - Barry Richards, Andy Caddick
Langeveldt
Soutie
Agreed, he was pretty much England's pick, seem to remember he got Prince out as well.. I find it ironic how KP has been seen as a saint from overseas sent to save English cricket, yet Pattinson was portrayed as some evil no-hoper.. He could have gone around raping and pillaging and it wouldn't have made a lot of difference to his percieved credentials.. Granted KP is better, but he's been cut so much slack as a bad egg in the dressing room
Goughy
Hall of Fame Member
haha, KP spends 4 years qualifing for England whilst destroying County attacks and yet that is worse than picking Pattinson who had made no indication of wanting to be English and had only played a handful of games?
Pattinson isnt the worst cricketer to ever play for England but it is certainly one of the worst ever picks.
Indicated there was no rhyme or reason, and then Amjad got picked just to confirm this genius strategy.
masterblaster
International Captain
Subramaniam Badrinath seems like the ultimate outsider at the moment with regards to this Indian team. He clearly has all the credentials, the technique and the statistics going in his favour. It's amazing how he can't break in to this Indian test team.
