Cricketing Great Greg Chappell nominated in World's Sexiest Vegetarian Celebrity poll

[jeevan]

Originally Posted by Matt79

Exhibits a) and b) for the prosecution actually.

Bizarre equation of meat-eating with disrespect for the environment. Evidence of brains being denied vital nutrients found in the cooked carcasses of cows and chickens IMO...

I'll reply to this post in the hope that you are really unaware of the connection. Strongly encourage you to look this up some. Starting with the UN report on this: Livestock impacts on the environment

The livestock industry accounts for 18% of greenhouse gas emissions.(I am not advocating dogmatic vegeterianism. Certainly a case can be made for drastically reducing the amount of meat consumption though as there is a 10:1 efficiency in producing vegeterian food with equivalent nutrition).

I realize this is just a cricket forum etc, what got me going was a poster citing a doctor equating health with a predominantly (or even exclusively) vegeterian diet. I'm doing my bit (despite your ridicule) on a fairly important topic.

[oitoitoi]

so if i go out and machine gun a couple of farms i'll be helping the environment? awesome.

[jeevan]

Originally Posted by oitoitoi

so if i go out and machine gun a couple of farms i'll be helping the environment? awesome.

Random violence to further a cause?? Dude, get yourself checked for mad-cow disease!!
(And may be not by your dad, what little evidence we have of his medical prowess is not encouraging).

[Agent TBY]

Originally Posted by jeevan

mad-cow disease!!

Oh good lord, you've gone and done it now.

[jeevan]

Originally Posted by Agent TBY

Oh good lord, you've gone and done it now.

My defence is mental impairment, by way of brain having received insufficient nutrition.

[GIMH]

Originally Posted by Agent TBY

Oh good lord, you've gone and done it now.

[Burgey]

Originally Posted by Richard

What's wrong with fortified drinks and supplements?

Nothing, but meat tastes better to many people.

Look, there's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian imo, and if you want to do it, that's fine. But some vegies are like Jehovah's Witnesess with their evangelical zeal, and that ****s me as much as it would **** you were some bastard to stand outside a vegetarian restaurant with a "Save the Lentils" placard.

[Burgey]

Originally Posted by jeevan

I'll reply to this post in the hope that you are really unaware of the connection. Strongly encourage you to look this up some. Starting with the UN report on this: Livestock impacts on the environment

The livestock industry accounts for 18% of greenhouse gas emissions.(I am not advocating dogmatic vegeterianism. Certainly a case can be made for drastically reducing the amount of meat consumption though as there is a 10:1 efficiency in producing vegeterian food with equivalent nutrition).

I realize this is just a cricket forum etc, what got me going was a poster citing a doctor equating health with a predominantly (or even exclusively) vegeterian diet. I'm doing my bit (despite your ridicule) on a fairly important topic.

But if you let the cows roam free and don't eat them, won't they multiply, thereby increasing green house emissions? For the environment's sake, I'm prepared to take on that 750g Wagyu beef steak at lunch, and do my bit.

[Top_Cat]

Originally Posted by jeevan

I'll reply to this post in the hope that you are really unaware of the connection. Strongly encourage you to look this up some. Starting with the UN report on this: Livestock impacts on the environment

The livestock industry accounts for 18% of greenhouse gas emissions.(I am not advocating dogmatic vegeterianism. Certainly a case can be made for drastically reducing the amount of meat consumption though as there is a 10:1 efficiency in producing vegeterian food with equivalent nutrition).

I realize this is just a cricket forum etc, what got me going was a poster citing a doctor equating health with a predominantly (or even exclusively) vegeterian diet. I'm doing my bit (despite your ridicule) on a fairly important topic.

This is the sort of post which infuriates. You're dealing with educated people here and you assume they're unaware? Do you honestly think the ridicule stems from ignorance?

Seriously, grow up. It's not about 'choosing' to use data, the data is the juice here. There's no serious consensus even on the construct/internal validity of measures used to inform half the stuff some environmentalists use. So, no, the 'evidence' is far from overwhelming.

Just to pick on the Vit B12 example again;

Guess what, the Vitamin B12 in meat products is produced by....

...bacteria. Same way that B12 gets into plant based foods.

You're not going to claim eating plants with the right bacteria will serve B12 needs are you? Because, sorry to say, it ain't the case. If you have access to an academic journal search;

Rauma AL, Torronen R, Hanninen O, Mykkanen H. Vitamin B-12 status of long-term adherents of a strict uncooked vegan diet ("living food diet") is compromised. J Nutr. 1995 Oct;125(10):2511-5.

And the Indian example Redbacks mentioned essentially found that the Indian population only satisfied their VitB12 needs from bacteria because they had drinking water polluted by human faeces.

Albert MJ, Mathan VI, Baker SJ. Vitamin B12 synthesis by human small intestinal bacteria. Nature. 1980;283(Feb 21):781-2.

This furthers the old theory that plant-eating animals satisfy their Vit B12 needs from eating their own faeces. Further confirmed by the classic study where vegans were fed extracts from their own stools (no kidding, wouldn't get past an ethics committee now that's for sure) which stopped their Vit B12 deficiency dead in its tracks;

Herbert V. Vitamin B-12: plant sources, requirements, and assay. Am J Clin Nutr 1988;48:852-8.

This is from a 2 minute OVID search, I saw heaps more.

And, waddayaknow, even pro-vegan sites agree;

Vitamin B12: Are You Getting It? : Are Intestinal Bacteria a Reliable Source of B12?

The point? Even raw food adherents, faecal bacterial crawling all over their food, have to supplement. There's no way you can eat any non-meat foods and get all the B12 you need. Sure you could eat your own faeces but I doubt I'd have to post any studies to prove how bad that would be for you or mention all the other health problems the Indian population in the study above had.

</grump>

EDIT: Not that it matters but I don't eat a lot of red meat, ridiculously expensive anyway. Just tired of the propaganda.

[Top_Cat]

Originally Posted by Richard

What's wrong with fortified drinks and supplements?

Nothing bad for you about it, as such, but it's just weird for veggo's I know who claim they're going the more natural route only to have to consume synthetic foods with synthetically fortified nutrients which are obtained from animal sources (generally) like the below;

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6492141.html

[jeevan]

Originally Posted by Top_Cat

This is the sort of post which infuriates. You're dealing with educated people here and you assume they're unaware? Do you honestly think the ridicule stems from ignorance?

Seriously, grow up. It's not about 'choosing' to use data, the data is the juice here. There's no serious consensus even on the construct/internal validity of measures used to inform half the stuff some environmentalists use. So, no, the 'evidence' is far from overwhelming.

Just to pick on the Vit B12 example again;

Guess what, the Vitamin B12 in meat products is produced by....

...bacteria. Same way that B12 gets into plant based foods.

You're not going to claim eating plants with the right bacteria will serve B12 needs are you? Because, sorry to say, it ain't the case. If you have access to an academic journal search;

Rauma AL, Torronen R, Hanninen O, Mykkanen H. Vitamin B-12 status of long-term adherents of a strict uncooked vegan diet ("living food diet") is compromised. J Nutr. 1995 Oct;125(10):2511-5.

And the Indian example Redbacks mentioned essentially found that the Indian population only satisfied their VitB12 needs from bacteria because they had drinking water polluted by human faeces.

Albert MJ, Mathan VI, Baker SJ. Vitamin B12 synthesis by human small intestinal bacteria. Nature. 1980;283(Feb 21):781-2.

This furthers the old theory that plant-eating animals satisfy their Vit B12 needs from eating their own faeces. Further confirmed by the classic study where vegans were fed extracts from their own stools (no kidding, wouldn't get past an ethics committee now that's for sure) which stopped their Vit B12 deficiency dead in its tracks;

Herbert V. Vitamin B-12: plant sources, requirements, and assay. Am J Clin Nutr 1988;48:852-8.

This is from a 2 minute OVID search, I saw heaps more.

And, waddayaknow, even pro-vegan sites agree;

Vitamin B12: Are You Getting It? : Are Intestinal Bacteria a Reliable Source of B12?

The point? Even raw food adherents, faecal bacterial crawling all over their food, have to supplement. There's no way you can eat any non-meat foods and get all the B12 you need. Sure you could eat your own faeces but I doubt I'd have to post any studies to prove how bad that would be for you or mention all the other health problems the Indian population in the study above had.

</grump>

EDIT: Not that it matters but I don't eat a lot of red meat, ridiculously expensive anyway. Just tired of the propaganda.

And before you went off on your little rant there, what made you pre-suppose that I am advocating uncooked, "pure vegan" diets? (Geez, given that industrial farming is what is used to grow most vegetables too, and there've been at least two instances of serious contamination on that count in California in the last 2-3 years, one involving spinach - eating uncooked food wouldn't be the smartest thing to do where I happen to live).

[ BTW I've been talking of vegeterian not vegan, which in the case of most non-meat eating Indians tends to be a lacto-vegeterian diet or even an ovo-lacto-vegeterian diet. My family eats meat very infrequently, and I'm pretty sure that most of our B12 comes from dairy products.].

Go find your bogeymen some other place, me - I'm just trying to keep the planet in good enough shape for my kids. Hope you do not have a problem with that.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Burgey

Nothing, but meat tastes better to many people.

Look, there's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian imo, and if you want to do it, that's fine. But some vegies are like Jehovah's Witnesess with their evangelical zeal, and that ****s me as much as it would **** you were some bastard to stand outside a vegetarian restaurant with a "Save the Lentils" placard.

Its called raising awareness.

When animals are being treated horribly in some of the worst conditions possibly imagineable, people ought to actually be made to know about it, and see what they are supporting.

I'm not a vegetarian (though I'm making slow steps to reducing my meat intake), but its this attitude that continues the secrecy/ignorance that is animal farming.

People know the conditions aren't great, but they're 50 times worse than they think. Its just easier to not think about it at all.

Was easier not to think of all kinds of social justice movements too, when they don't affect us directly.

Animal rights is the next social justice movement. Its just going to take a while for attitudes to change. And by that I mean farming practices, I don't mean everyone going vegetarian.

[Burgey]

Animal rights isn't suffregacy or the Civil Rights movement.

We're omnivores.

Sorry, but if animals are being treated poorly, then it's sad and should be stopped. But really, just because some animals are treated poorly is no more reason to stop eating meat than the poor treatment of third world workers by Nike means I shouldn't buy another brand of running shoes.

[Goughy]

I love meat, I eat lots of it and enjoy it. I dont really understand vegetarians (men especially) but, like surfing and homosexuality, I appreciate that just because I dont 'get' it doesnt mean there is anything wrong with it. Each to their own.

I think it is healthier to eat meat but then Im no expert.

On a related note, I was interested to watch yesterday that Roman gladiators were virtually completely vegetarian and ate far less meat than the average Roman citizen. A finding that suprized the experts as they were expecting a high protein, training diet.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Burgey

Animal rights isn't suffregacy or the Civil Rights movement.

We're omnivores.

Sorry, but if animals are being treated poorly, then it's sad and should be stopped. But really, just because some animals are treated poorly is no more reason to stop eating meat than the poor treatment of third world workers by Nike means I shouldn't buy another brand of running shoes.

I assume you mean it doesn't mean "should" buy another brand of Nike shoes right?

Would you support Nike if they only hired white people, and were openly discriminatory?

As I said, its an attitude thing. There might be people who didn't care whether blacks could sit at the front of the bus. Those that did, were in everyone else's faces, and protesting. Its the same thing, just on a different scale of seriousness (which again, is an attitude, not a fact).