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    Mouth-watering analysis this

    Cricinfo - Blogs - It Figures - The great Test batsmen - a look across 132 years

    May 7, 2009

    Posted by Ananth Narayanan at 6:31 AM in Batting

    The great Test batsmen - a look across 132 years




    Brian Lara is next only to Sir Don in the all-time list of Test batsmen AFP
    This is one of the most awaited analyses and has been in the pipeline for long. Many readers have asked for this analysis and finally I have been able to complete the same. I have given below a summary of how I have gone about this complex analysis process. This is based on my own observations and comments raised by a number of readers over the past few months.

    1. There has to be equal weight given to Match performances and Career achievements. The match analysis should deal with the specific match-related measurable situations only.

    2. The batsman's longevity related measure such as career runs scored has to be recognised, but at a lower weighting level, no more than 15-20% of the total.

    3. There has to be a clear recognition of the quality of bowling faced by the batsman in every match. A hundred against Australia has to be valued at a much higher level than a hundred against Bangladesh or New Zealand in 1933.

    4. The batting average should be considered the most significant of the career-related measures. However this has to be adjusted based on the par batting average(s) of the period(s) spanned by the batsman's career. A pre-WW1 batsman's average has to be adjusted upwards for the low batting averages prevalent during these period while a current batsman's average has to be adjusted downwards in view of the high batting averages prevalent. If a batsman's career spans multiple periods, there has to be proportionate adjustment.

    5. The batsman's career strike rate has become an important measure. This should be recognized, if available. For those batsmen whose strike rate information is not available, this parameter will not be included. If the strike rate is available for part of the batsman's career, it will be considered for that part only. This is explained in detail later. There is a case for the innings strike rate to be incorporated in the Match Performance calculations. However this revised methodology necessarily requires the strike rate to be a career-based calculation rather than match innings based.

    6. Non-measurable cricketing factors such as bouncers, helmets, uncovered pitches et al cannot be incorporated. Nice for healthy discussions, but not beyond.

    A lengthy introduction, however the weighty topic required this. Now let us look at the details.

    First a minimum criteria is to be established. I have decided to keep the minimum runs required at 2000 runs so that great batsmen such as George Headley, Greame Pollock, Ponsford, Macartney, Hazare, O'Neill, McCabe et al would come in for consideration. If I had raised the bar to 3000 runs, all these wonderful players would have missed out. It is also true that in a different era and political situation they would have played more Tests.

    Now for the Ratings methodology.

    The Match Performances would carry a weight of 50 points, based on the methodology explained below. Career Achievements will carry a weight of 50 points, based on methodology explained later.

    Match Performances:

    The following factors are considered.

    Base for calculation will be Runs scored. Other factors are explained below. Each of these is a multiplicative parameter, ranging either side of 1.00. For certain parameters such as result, home/away, runs added with late order et al, there would not be a below 1.00 value.

    1. Pitch type.
    2. Quality of bowling - weighted by actual balls bowled by each bowler.
    3. Position at batsman entry (5 for 1, 100 for 2, 24 for 3, 325 for 4 et al).
    4. Runs added with late order batsmen (no. 8 onwards).
    5. Innings type (1/2/3/4, Score faced, Target et al).
    6. Match result, taking into consideration relative team strengths.
    7. Match location (Home/Away).
    8. Match importance (Series status).

    The points for each innings are computed, summed and divided by the number of matches played to arrive at the Match Performance Ratings value. The highest Match Performance Ratings value is 40.03 achieved by Bradman. George Headley is the next best in this category with 28.48 points followed by Lara with 27.31 points. Thus the limit of 50 we set has worked out well.

    Career achievements:

    The points allocation, totalling to 50 points, is explained below.

    1. Batting average: 20 points (for an adjusted average of 100.00).

    Adjusted by the years spanned by the batsman career and the average Batting Average during the period. The adjustment is done proportionately. Most of the adjustment has been downward, between 1% and 6% (for the 2000s batsmen). The highest adjustment has been 20%, for batsmen such as Hill, Trumper whose entire career has been before Pre-WW1.

    The highest adjusted average is that of Bradman, whose average of 99.96 has been adjusted down to 96.75. He gets 19.35 points and is followed by Hobbs (61.68) with 12.34 points and Weekes (61.06) with 12.21 points.

    2. Runs scored: 15 points (for scoring 15,000 Test runs).

    Away runs are given a slightly higher weight as explained. Scoring 1050 home runs gets one point for the batsman while 950 away runs will be enough to get one point. The differential of 10% seems very reasonable. This is the only longevity-based measure and carries a weight of only 15%.

    This is a straight-forward calculation. Tendulkar is the highest and gets 12.85 points followed by Lara with 11.93 and Border with 11.16 points.

    3. Scoring rate: 10 points (for a scoring rate of 100).

    The full 10 points (and a total of 100 points) will be the base for batsmen like Sehwag, Hayden et al, whose career strike rate is available in complete. For batsmen such as Bradman, Hobbs et al, there will be no points taken, consequently the total points for consideration of the Ratings points % will be 90. For batsmen such as Lara, Tendulkar et al, proportionate points, out of 10, will be considered, consequently the total points for consideration of the Ratings points % will be between 90 and 100. This delicate tweak was suggested by Shyam (Ananthanarayan).

    Among those whose complete data is available, Gilchrist leads in this measure with 8.20 points followed by Sehwag with 7.87 points and Pieterson with 6.32 points.

    4. % of Team runs scored: 5 points (for scoring 25% of team runs).

    Bradman is the leader in this measure, having scored 24.98% of the team runs. He gets 4.99 points, followed by Headley with 4.32 points and Lara with 3.79 points.

    Now for the Top-20 table.

    The best Test batsmen of all time

    No.Cty Batsman Mat Total Rating Match BatAvg Runs BatSR %-TS Max
    Pts Pts Perf Pts Pts Pts Pts Pts

    1.Aus Bradman D.G 52 (71.27) 79.19 40.02 19.35 6.91 .... 4.99 90.00
    2.Win Lara B.C 131 (58.44) 59.40 27.31 10.43 11.93 4.98 3.79 98.38
    3.Ind Tendulkar S.R 159 (53.68) 54.59 22.43 10.69 12.85 4.60 3.11 98.33
    4.Aus Ponting R.T 131 (54.46) 54.46 23.95 10.85 10.88 5.91 2.87 100.00
    5.Eng Hobbs J.B 61 (48.53) 53.93 27.07 12.34 5.49 .... 3.64 90.00
    6.Win Sobers G.St.A 93 (48.14) 53.49 25.48 11.48 8.03 .... 3.16 90.00
    7.Eng Hutton L 79 (47.78) 53.09 25.85 11.35 6.93 .... 3.66 90.00
    8.Ind Gavaskar S.M 125 (47.40) 52.51 23.81 10.02 10.12 0.11 3.35 90.28
    9.Win Headley G.A 22 (46.98) 52.20 28.48 12.00 2.18 .... 4.32 90.00
    10.Ind Dravid R 134 (51.80) 51.80 23.58 10.11 10.92 4.17 3.02 100.00

    11.Aus Hayden M.L 103 (51.71) 51.71 24.47 9.85 8.54 6.01 2.84 100.00
    12.Win EdeC Weekes 48 (45.83) 50.92 25.65 12.21 4.44 .... 3.53 90.00
    13.Saf Kallis J.H 131 (50.73) 50.73 22.51 10.56 10.23 4.42 3.01 100.00
    14.Eng Barrington K.F 82 (45.63) 50.70 23.72 11.71 6.81 .... 3.39 90.00
    15.Aus Border A.R 156 (46.62) 50.40 21.50 10.07 11.16 1.01 2.89 92.50
    16.Pak Mohammad Yousuf 79 (50.37) 50.37 24.50 10.60 6.81 5.26 3.20 100.00
    17.Slk Sangakkara K.C 80 (50.09) 50.09 24.23 10.33 6.73 5.59 3.21 100.00
    18.Aus Chappell G.S 87 (45.27) 50.04 24.31 10.54 7.01 0.24 3.17 90.48
    19.Ind Sehwag V 69 (49.69) 49.69 23.59 9.40 5.77 7.87 3.06 100.00
    20.Win Richards I.V.A 121 (44.67) 49.39 22.81 9.90 8.65 0.31 2.99 90.45

    Any doubts as to the position of Bradman at the top should disappear after this analysis. Bradman is the best in three measures (Match Performance, Batting Average and % of Team Score). He is ahead of the next best batsman by a whopping 25%. A series average of 57 by Bradman was considered to be a failure. It is necessary to agree, once and for all, that Bradman is and was the best Test batsman who ever played. Note the qualification, "Test", however. Who can forget the 334, 304, 270, 173* that Bradman scored.

    Lara's second position again should not surprise any one. Playing for a weak team, mostly with inconsistent support, he essayed some of the best Test innings ever. 153*, 213, 277, 375/400 should figure in anybody's list of Top-20 innings. He also scored at a fair pace. Finally has there ever been a better batsman's Test series than the one, away, against Sri Lanka when he scored 688 runs, all in a losing cause. Lara is way behind Bradman but is very comfortably ahead of the next batsman.

    The third and fourth positions should be looked together. Tendulkar and Ponting are separated only in the second decimal, that too because of Ponting's below-average series aginst South Africa. Two wonderful batsmen, capable of saving or winning Tests, fully deserving of their high place in this table. If Tendulkar is a more all-round batsman with an outstanding technique and no weakness, Ponting is the more attacking batsman but with a known weakness against top class spinners.

    Hobbs is in fifth position, deservedly so, no doubt aided by the upwards revision of his batting average. He played on a number of bowler-friendly pitches and it is difficult to think of a better opener other than the one who appears slightly below him.

    The top-10 is completed by Sobers, Hutton, Gavaskar, Headley and Dravid. Every one of these batsmen deserves his position. Headley is in the Top-10 despite playing only 22 Tests and scoring 2190 runs. This is a vindication of the Ratings methodology in that a batsman who has scored only a fifth of the runs the others have scored can still come into the Top-10.

    Richards' position at no.20 might be questioned by some. The problem is that Richards, with his carefree attitude alternated great performances with very average performances in his Test career. This is clearly shown in the Match performances points, quite low at 22.81. Also his adjusted average is below 50. Finally a simple indicator is the fact that he has taken 121 Tests to score 8540 runs (71 runs per Test) as compared to Lara, 131 Tests and 11953 runs (91 runs per Test) or Hayden, 103 Tests and 8625 runs (84 runs per Test). It is also true that he never faced the most fearsome bowling attack at that time.

    Similarly Hammond's 22nd position (Pieterson is at no.21) must also be looked at with surprise. This is explained by the fact that a fair proportion of his runs were scored against very weak New Zealand attacks and average South African and West Indian attacks.

    To view the complete list, please click here.

    The support information for the Top-20 batsmen is given below.

    The best Test batsmen of all time: Support data

    SNo. Cty Batsman Mat Rating Runs Batting (Adj) BatSR %-TS Career
    Pts Average (%) BowQty

    1. Aus Bradman D.G 52 79.19 6996 96.75 (0.97) .... 25.0% 36.1
    2. Win Lara B.C 131 59.40 11953 52.15 (0.99) 59.4* 19.0% 35.4
    3. Ind Tendulkar S.R 159 54.59 12773 53.46 (0.98) 55.2* 15.5% 37.1
    4. Aus Ponting R.T 131 54.46 10956 54.26 (0.97) 59.1 14.4% 37.0
    5. Eng Hobbs J.B 61 53.93 5410 61.68 (1.08) .... 18.2% 35.7
    6. Win Sobers G.St.A 93 53.49 8032 57.40 (0.99) .... 15.8% 33.4
    7. Eng Hutton L 79 53.09 6971 56.73 (1.00) .... 18.3% 38.4
    8. Ind Gavaskar S.M 125 52.51 10122 50.10 (0.98) 38.5* 16.7% 35.6
    9. Win Headley G.A 22 52.20 2190 60.02 (0.99) .... 21.6% 32.6
    10. Ind Dravid R 134 51.80 10823 50.54 (0.96) 41.7 15.1% 37.0

    11. Aus Hayden M.L 103 51.71 8626 49.27 (0.97) 60.1 14.2% 37.3
    12. Win EdeC Weekes 48 50.92 4455 61.06 (1.04) .... 17.7% 36.1
    13. Saf Kallis J.H 131 50.73 10277 52.79 (0.97) 44.2 15.1% 37.1
    14. Eng Barrington K.F 82 50.70 6806 58.55 (1.00) .... 17.0% 36.0
    15. Aus Border A.R 156 50.40 11174 50.33 (1.00) 40.5* 14.4% 34.0
    16. Pak Mohammad Yousuf 79 50.37 6770 53.00 (0.96) 52.6 16.0% 38.7
    17. Slk Sangakkara K.C 80 50.09 6764 51.65 (0.94) 55.9 16.1% 39.4
    18. Aus Chappell G.S 87 50.04 7110 52.70 (0.98) 50.8* 15.8% 33.4
    19. Ind Sehwag V 69 49.69 5757 47.02 (0.94) 78.7 15.3% 36.0
    20. Win Richards I.V.A 121 49.39 8540 49.52 (0.99) 68.1* 15.0% 33.8

    '*' means only part strike rate information is available.

    The values are self-explanatory. The Batting Average shown is the adjusted figure and the figure in brackets shows the adjustment done. To view the complete list, please click here

    One final note on the quality of bowling faced. For correct cricketing reasons I had incorporated this measure in the "Match Performance" segment so that a 100 scored against a strong Australian attack would carry a lot more weight than a similar innings against a weak Bangladeshi attack. However I have also done another complicated exercise, to provide an analytical answer to those who had mentioned that Bradman faced weak bowling attacks.

    I considered every innings played by a batsman, multiplied this by the weighted bowling quality for the particular innings, summed this value and divided by the total number of runs scored. There cannot be a better indicator of the quality of bowling faced than this. The last column above indicates this weighted bowling quality indicator for the top-20 batsmen.

    It is clear that Bradman faced as good a bowling attack, on an average, as any one else in the Top-10. In fact he faced a better bowling attack than Tendulkar, Ponting, Hayden and Dravid. So that argument should be put to rest.

    Amongst the top batsman the batsman who faced the most powerful bowling attack was Graham Gooch, Alec Stewart, Atherton et al, around 30. This is quite understandable, considering the quality of West indian bowlers Gooch faced.

    The least powerful attack was faced by Ames, Hammond et al, with around 45. If one looks at the 1932-33 New Zealand attack (sum total of 29 career Test wickets) we can understand this. Then come Sangakkara, Atapattu and Jayasuriya. Understandable considering the tons of runs scored by them against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe.

    To view the complete bowling quality list, please click here

    If an analysis is made combining both Tests and ODIs, which I would do later, it is almost certain that Tendulkar would be no.1, although I expect that Richards, Lara and Ponting would run him close. We obviously have to exclude great batsmen such as Bradman, Hobbs, Sobers et al from this exercise.

    The great Test batsmen - a look across 132 years

    This is one of the most awaited analyses and has been in the pipeline for long. Many readers have asked for this analysis and finally I have been able to complete the same. I have given below a summary of how I have gone about this complex analysis process

    Read more

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    Here's the full list;


    SNo. Cty Batsman Mat Total Rating Match BatAvg BatRuns BatSR %-TS Max
    Pts Pts Perf Pts Pts Pts Pts Pts

    1. Aus Bradman D.G 52 (71.27) 79.19 40.02 19.35 6.91 .... 4.99 90.00
    2. Win Lara B.C 131 (58.44) 59.40 27.31 10.43 11.93 4.98 3.79 98.38
    3. Ind Tendulkar S.R 159 (53.68) 54.59 22.43 10.69 12.85 4.60 3.11 98.33
    4. Aus Ponting R.T 131 (54.46) 54.46 23.95 10.85 10.88 5.91 2.87 100.00
    5. Eng Hobbs J.B 61 (48.53) 53.93 27.07 12.34 5.49 .... 3.64 90.00
    6. Win Sobers G.St.A 93 (48.14) 53.49 25.48 11.48 8.03 .... 3.16 90.00
    7. Eng Hutton L 79 (47.78) 53.09 25.85 11.35 6.93 .... 3.66 90.00
    8. Ind Gavaskar S.M 125 (47.40) 52.51 23.81 10.02 10.12 0.11 3.35 90.28
    9. Win Headley G.A 22 (46.98) 52.20 28.48 12.00 2.18 .... 4.32 90.00
    10. Ind Dravid R 134 (51.80) 51.80 23.58 10.11 10.92 4.17 3.02 100.00

    11. Aus Hayden M.L 103 (51.71) 51.71 24.47 9.85 8.54 6.01 2.84 100.00
    12. Win EdeC Weekes 48 (45.83) 50.92 25.65 12.21 4.44 .... 3.53 90.00
    13. Saf Kallis J.H 131 (50.73) 50.73 22.51 10.56 10.23 4.42 3.01 100.00
    14. Eng Barrington K.F 82 (45.63) 50.70 23.72 11.71 6.81 .... 3.39 90.00
    15. Aus Border A.R 156 (46.62) 50.40 21.50 10.07 11.16 1.01 2.89 92.50
    16. Pak Mohammad Yousuf 79 (50.37) 50.37 24.50 10.60 6.81 5.26 3.20 100.00
    17. Slk Sangakkara K.C 80 (50.09) 50.09 24.23 10.33 6.73 5.59 3.21 100.00
    18. Aus Chappell G.S 87 (45.27) 50.04 24.31 10.54 7.01 0.24 3.17 90.48
    19. Ind Sehwag V 69 (49.69) 49.69 23.59 9.40 5.77 7.87 3.06 100.00
    20. Win Richards I.V.A 121 (44.67) 49.39 22.81 9.90 8.65 0.31 2.99 90.45
    21. Eng Pietersen K.P 50 (49.24) 49.24 25.73 9.60 4.41 6.32 3.19 100.00
    22. Eng Hammond W.R 85 (44.22) 49.13 22.24 11.27 7.31 .... 3.40 90.00
    23. Slk Jayawardene D.P 102 (49.05) 49.05 22.48 10.00 8.15 5.26 3.15 100.00
    24. Pak Inzamam-ul-Haq 120 (48.02) 49.01 22.08 9.74 8.91 4.35 2.94 97.97
    25. Saf Pollock R.G 23 (44.01) 48.90 26.60 11.88 2.22 .... 3.32 90.00
    26. Pak Younis Khan 60 (48.89) 48.89 25.43 9.73 5.20 5.38 3.15 100.00
    27. Eng Gooch G.A 118 (44.93) 48.81 23.61 8.45 8.75 1.00 3.11 92.05
    28. Win Walcott C.L 44 (43.71) 48.56 25.01 11.75 3.73 .... 3.22 90.00
    29. Eng Sutcliffe H 54 (43.63) 48.48 24.05 11.61 4.52 .... 3.45 90.00
    30. Eng Boycott G 108 (43.81) 48.23 23.02 9.32 8.08 0.28 3.11 90.84
    31. Saf Smith G.C 77 (48.21) 48.21 23.26 9.46 6.39 6.12 2.98 100.00
    32. Aus Harvey R.N 79 (43.18) 47.98 23.84 9.92 6.18 .... 3.24 90.00
    33. Saf Nourse A.D 34 (42.73) 47.47 25.55 10.61 2.92 .... 3.64 90.00
    34. Aus Waugh S.R 168 (46.50) 47.39 18.98 10.12 10.90 3.94 2.56 98.11
    35. Pak Javed Miandad 124 (42.51) 47.23 20.05 10.42 8.83 .... 3.22 90.00
    36. Win Chanderpaul S 119 (46.81) 47.13 21.62 9.69 8.48 4.04 2.98 99.31
    37. Win Kanhai R.B 79 (41.76) 46.40 23.30 9.37 6.23 .... 2.86 90.00
    38. Ind Gambhir G 25 (46.19) 46.19 25.51 10.16 2.26 5.22 3.04 100.00
    39. Eng Gower D.I 117 (41.81) 45.96 21.45 8.77 8.20 0.47 2.92 90.97
    40. Win Nurse S.M 29 (41.35) 45.95 26.56 9.27 2.56 .... 2.96 90.00
    41. Aus Langer J.L 105 (45.94) 45.94 21.43 8.86 7.64 5.42 2.59 100.00
    42. Win Greenidge C.G 108 (41.56) 45.93 22.08 8.82 7.61 0.22 2.83 90.50
    43. Zim Flower A 63 (44.69) 45.80 22.75 10.28 4.78 3.47 3.41 97.58
    44. Saf Mitchell B 42 (40.85) 45.39 24.42 9.50 3.48 .... 3.44 90.00
    45. Aus Simpson R.B 62 (40.68) 45.20 23.55 9.21 4.87 .... 3.05 90.00
    46. Eng Trescothick M.E 76 (45.12) 45.12 22.88 8.22 5.76 5.45 2.82 100.00
    47. Aus Lawry W.M 67 (40.58) 45.09 23.18 9.18 5.21 .... 3.00 90.00
    48. Eng Compton D.C.S 78 (40.57) 45.08 21.66 10.06 5.70 .... 3.15 90.00
    49. Saf Kirsten G 101 (44.68) 45.02 21.64 8.92 7.32 4.00 2.80 99.25
    50. Aus Taylor M.A 104 (43.77) 45.00 21.78 8.84 7.50 2.99 2.67 97.27
    1. Win Lloyd C.H 110 (40.61) 44.94 20.90 9.13 7.60 0.27 2.70 90.35
    52. Eng May P.B.H 66 (40.14) 44.60 22.77 9.63 4.48 .... 3.27 90.00
    53. Eng Cowdrey M.C 114 (40.14) 44.60 20.87 8.75 7.65 .... 2.87 90.00
    54. Pak Saeed Anwar 55 (43.46) 44.43 22.84 9.16 4.08 4.34 3.05 97.83
    55. Aus Hussey M.E.K 37 (44.27) 44.27 23.32 10.39 3.01 4.82 2.73 100.00
    56. Eng Thorpe G.P 100 (43.51) 43.99 21.20 8.77 6.75 4.08 2.70 98.91
    57. Aus Walters K.D 74 (39.57) 43.97 21.95 9.42 5.32 .... 2.88 90.00
    58. Eng Strauss A.J 60 (43.72) 43.72 22.99 8.31 4.72 4.95 2.75 100.00
    59. Win Richardson R.B 86 (40.13) 43.71 21.43 8.89 5.92 0.94 2.94 91.82
    60. Win Worrell F.M.M 51 (39.31) 43.67 22.33 10.14 3.86 .... 2.97 90.00
    61. Eng Stewart A.J 133 (42.53) 43.63 19.92 7.88 8.42 3.63 2.67 97.48
    62. Aus Slater M.J 74 (43.28) 43.43 21.51 8.58 5.29 5.21 2.69 99.66
    63. Aus Hill C 49 (39.05) 43.38 23.39 9.41 3.35 .... 2.89 90.00
    64. Win Haynes D.L 116 (39.28) 43.30 20.32 8.41 7.47 0.35 2.72 90.71
    65. Aus Morris A.R 46 (38.96) 43.29 22.86 9.68 3.53 .... 2.89 90.00
    66. Saf Barlow E.J 30 (38.91) 43.23 24.53 8.91 2.50 .... 2.97 90.00
    67. Aus Boon D.C 107 (41.08) 43.21 20.29 8.76 7.34 2.06 2.62 95.08
    68. Eng Atherton M.A 115 (42.00) 43.13 21.31 7.57 7.64 2.68 2.79 97.37
    69. Nzl Crowe M.D 77 (39.01) 42.88 20.92 9.07 5.48 0.46 3.09 90.99
    70. Aus Redpath I.R 66 (38.58) 42.68 22.52 8.47 4.73 0.15 2.70 90.39
    71. Pak Hanif Mohammad 55 (38.40) 42.67 22.27 8.83 4.00 .... 3.30 90.00
    72. Aus Waugh M.E 128 (42.54) 42.65 18.66 8.35 8.03 5.09 2.41 99.75
    73. Slk de Silva P.A 93 (39.65) 42.13 19.68 8.56 6.35 2.06 3.00 94.10
    74. Eng Dexter E.R 62 (37.87) 42.08 21.00 9.45 4.51 .... 2.92 90.00
    75. Saf McGlew D.J 34 (37.84) 42.04 23.53 8.62 2.45 .... 3.24 90.00
    76. Aus Gilchrist A.C 96 (42.00) 42.00 17.06 9.02 5.55 8.20 2.17 100.00
    77. Ind Laxman V.V.S 105 (41.94) 41.94 19.13 8.70 6.79 4.91 2.41 100.00
    78. Ind Hazare V.S 30 (37.64) 41.83 22.20 9.93 2.19 .... 3.32 90.00
    79. Saf Taylor H.W 42 (37.63) 41.81 22.80 8.55 2.88 .... 3.39 90.00
    80. Eng Vaughan M.P 82 (41.79) 41.79 20.55 7.85 5.68 5.11 2.60 100.00
    81. Win Fredericks R.C 59 (37.77) 41.63 21.85 8.28 4.33 0.62 2.68 90.71
    82. Nzl Turner G.M 41 (37.41) 41.56 22.37 8.73 3.00 .... 3.31 90.00
    83. Slk Jayasuriya S.T 110 (40.89) 41.55 17.99 7.87 6.91 5.53 2.60 98.41
    84. Eng Amiss D.L 50 (37.38) 41.53 21.79 9.02 3.63 .... 2.94 90.00
    85. Ind Viswanath G.R 91 (37.45) 41.49 20.21 8.20 6.03 0.14 2.86 90.25
    86. Nzl Fleming S.P 111 (40.78) 41.36 19.08 7.78 7.24 3.95 2.74 98.61
    87. Aus Chappell I.M 75 (37.43) 41.30 20.80 8.27 5.34 0.31 2.71 90.63
    88. Aus Martyn D.R 67 (41.12) 41.18 20.15 9.11 4.42 5.11 2.33 99.85
    89. Win Hunte C.C 44 (36.92) 41.03 22.20 8.90 3.24 .... 2.59 90.00
    90. Saf Gibbs H.H 90 (41.00) 41.00 19.20 8.09 6.17 5.03 2.52 100.00
    91. Aus Cowper R.M 27 (36.88) 40.97 22.62 9.12 2.06 .... 3.08 90.00
    92. Win Sarwan R.R 79 (40.90) 40.90 20.05 8.00 5.47 4.64 2.74 100.00
    93. Win Gayle C.H 80 (40.79) 40.79 19.50 7.52 5.41 5.71 2.65 100.00
    94. Ind Ganguly S.C 113 (40.78) 40.78 17.85 8.13 7.25 5.13 2.42 100.00
    95. Eng Smith R.A 62 (37.44) 40.50 20.62 8.83 4.18 1.10 2.71 92.46
    96. Aus Trumper V.T 48 (36.41) 40.46 21.18 9.37 3.12 .... 2.74 90.00
    97. Aus Hassett A.L 43 (36.39) 40.44 21.21 9.30 3.05 .... 2.83 90.00
    98. Saf Cullinan D.J 70 (39.79) 40.38 19.36 8.85 4.55 4.24 2.79 98.52
    99. Eng Edrich J.H 77 (36.18) 40.20 19.86 8.48 5.08 .... 2.76 90.00
    100. Aus Clarke M.J 47 (40.13) 40.13 20.34 8.98 3.18 5.29 2.33 100.00
    101. Win Butcher B.F 44 (36.10) 40.11 21.88 8.49 3.19 .... 2.54 90.00
    102. Win Kallicharran A. 66 (36.21) 40.02 20.19 8.68 4.44 0.20 2.70 90.49
    103. Eng Cook A.N 41 (39.91) 39.91 21.29 8.14 3.07 4.69 2.72 100.00
    104. Aus Ponsford W.H 29 (35.90) 39.89 21.91 9.22 2.11 .... 2.66 90.00
    105. Aus Jones D.M 52 (36.76) 39.84 20.03 9.28 3.61 1.11 2.73 92.28
    106. Pak Saeed Ahmed 41 (35.78) 39.76 21.77 7.94 3.05 .... 3.02 90.00
    107. Ind Azharuddin M 99 (37.08) 39.72 17.26 9.04 6.18 1.94 2.65 93.34
    108. Saf de Villiers A.B 52 (39.70) 39.70 19.98 8.25 3.58 5.30 2.59 100.00
    109. Nzl Jones A.H 39 (36.27) 39.65 20.75 8.92 2.90 0.58 3.12 91.49
    110. Aus McDonald C.C 47 (35.58) 39.54 21.49 8.09 3.11 .... 2.90 90.00
    111. Aus McCabe S.J 39 (35.57) 39.53 20.89 9.22 2.76 .... 2.72 90.00
    112. Nzl Wright J.G 82 (35.54) 39.29 19.76 7.51 5.29 0.12 2.85 90.44
    113. Eng Hendren E.H 51 (35.21) 39.13 19.81 9.11 3.58 .... 2.72 90.00
    114. Aus Katich S.M 38 (39.11) 39.11 20.96 8.16 2.69 4.90 2.40 100.00
    115. Aus Yallop G.N 39 (35.61) 39.07 21.39 8.07 2.76 0.52 2.87 91.15
    116. Eng Graveney T.W 79 (35.14) 39.04 18.59 8.93 4.81 .... 2.81 90.00
    117. Saf Wessels K.C 40 (35.46) 38.79 21.21 8.19 2.77 0.57 2.72 91.40
    118. Ind Vengsarkar D.B 116 (34.92) 38.71 17.19 8.33 6.84 0.07 2.49 90.20
    119. Eng Hussain N 96 (38.62) 38.69 19.03 7.38 5.77 3.96 2.48 99.83
    120. Nzl Richardson M.H 38 (38.65) 38.65 20.75 8.41 2.80 3.77 2.93 100.00
    121. Eng Collingwood P.D 46 (38.35) 38.35 19.60 8.25 3.28 4.64 2.58 100.00
    122. Nzl Sutcliffe B 42 (34.46) 38.29 20.07 8.18 2.78 .... 3.42 90.00
    123. Pak Zaheer Abbas 78 (34.38) 38.20 17.88 8.77 5.07 .... 2.67 90.00
    124. Aus O'Neill N.C 42 (34.32) 38.14 19.72 9.03 2.78 .... 2.80 90.00
    125. Slk Samaraweera T.T 49 (37.94) 37.94 17.90 9.60 3.26 4.63 2.55 100.00
    126. Aus Hughes K.J 70 (34.22) 37.74 19.60 7.35 4.36 0.29 2.63 90.6
    127. Eng Greig A.W 58 (33.81) 37.57 19.64 7.88 3.62 .... 2.68 90.00
    128. Eng Leyland M 41 (33.77) 37.52 19.27 8.81 2.75 .... 2.94 90.00
    129. Win Hooper C.L 102 (36.06) 37.41 17.39 7.28 5.79 3.14 2.46 96.40
    130. Pak Saleem Malik 103 (34.36) 37.36 16.40 8.78 5.77 0.91 2.51 91.98
    131. Win Stollmeyer J.B 32 (33.54) 37.27 20.29 8.52 2.18 .... 2.55 90.00
    132. Slk Atapattu M.S 90 (37.02) 37.07 16.94 7.67 5.51 4.40 2.49 99.84
    133. Eng Washbrook C 37 (33.31) 37.01 19.36 8.59 2.55 .... 2.81 90.00
    134. Saf Prince A.G 48 (36.99) 36.99 18.14 8.88 3.04 4.44 2.49 100.00
    135. Aus Woodfull W.M 35 (33.23) 36.93 19.60 8.79 2.27 .... 2.57 90.00
    136. Ind Amarnath M 69 (33.21) 36.90 17.84 8.33 4.46 .... 2.58 90.00
    137. Eng Bell I.R 46 (36.84) 36.84 18.85 7.63 2.99 5.01 2.36 100.00
    138. Ind Umrigar P.R 59 (33.07) 36.74 17.81 8.68 3.60 .... 2.97 90.00
    139. Eng Butcher M.A 71 (36.55) 36.55 18.87 6.70 4.26 4.29 2.42 100.00
    140. Pak Majid Khan 63 (32.95) 36.50 18.42 7.60 3.97 0.37 2.58 90.28
    141. Aus Armstrong W.W 50 (32.83) 36.48 18.56 9.10 2.82 .... 2.36 90.00
    142. Nzl Astle N.J 81 (36.24) 36.46 17.25 7.17 4.72 4.63 2.47 99.39
    143. Saf Amla H.M 37 (36.34) 36.34 18.97 7.58 2.45 4.92 2.42 100.00
    144. Pak Asif Iqbal 58 (32.68) 36.31 19.00 7.58 3.64 .... 2.47 90.00
    145. Slk Dilshan T.M 52 (36.24) 36.24 16.68 7.91 3.06 6.21 2.38 100.00
    146. Pak Mushtaq Mohamma 57 (32.50) 36.11 18.61 7.66 3.71 .... 2.53 90.00
    147. Aus Stackpole K.R 43 (32.37) 35.97 19.73 7.29 2.83 .... 2.51 90.00
    148. Pak Aamer Sohail 47 (34.17) 35.95 18.99 7.13 2.84 2.66 2.56 95.04
    149. Ind Sardesai D.N 30 (32.33) 35.93 20.05 7.64 2.00 .... 2.65 90.00
    150. Eng Lamb A.J 79 (32.43) 35.87 17.98 7.18 4.63 0.28 2.36 90.42
    151. Nzl Reid J.R 58 (32.16) 35.73 18.82 6.77 3.50 .... 3.07 90.00
    152. Aus Macartney C.G 35 (32.16) 35.73 18.02 9.31 2.16 .... 2.67 90.00
    153. Bng Habibul Bashar 50 (35.68) 35.68 17.76 5.80 3.04 6.03 3.06 100.00
    154. Ind Sidhu N.S 51 (33.36) 35.55 17.44 8.47 3.19 1.70 2.56 93.84
    155. Eng Richardson P.E 34 (31.81) 35.34 19.45 7.55 2.06 .... 2.75 90.00
    156. Slk Tillakaratne H. 83 (33.61) 35.34 16.20 8.51 4.52 2.05 2.34 95.11
    157. Win Rowe L.G 30 (32.05) 35.30 18.46 8.50 2.02 0.40 2.68 90.79
    158. Nzl McMillan C.D 55 (35.14) 35.14 16.72 7.43 3.10 5.50 2.40 100.00
    159. Pak Shoaib Mohammad 45 (31.59) 35.10 17.28 8.88 2.66 .... 2.77 90.00
    160. Aus Bardsley W 41 (31.48) 34.97 17.58 8.95 2.48 .... 2.46 90.00
    161. Saf Goddard T.L 41 (31.41) 34.90 19.54 6.86 2.50 .... 2.51 90.00
    162. Pak Sadiq Mohammad 41 (31.37) 34.86 19.26 6.99 2.62 .... 2.49 90.00
    163. Win Adams J.C 54 (33.15) 34.86 17.69 8.27 3.01 1.61 2.56 95.09
    164. Saf Cronje W.J 68 (33.85) 34.83 17.15 7.35 3.71 3.33 2.31 97.18
    165. Slk Ranatunga A 93 (32.12) 34.65 16.16 7.14 5.08 1.30 2.44 92.71
    166. Eng Botham I.T 102 (31.45) 34.54 16.38 6.64 5.16 0.96 2.31 91.07
    167. Pak Ijaz Ahmed 60 (33.01) 34.51 16.96 7.55 3.36 2.74 2.40 95.67
    168. Nzl Cairns C.L 62 (33.67) 34.21 16.59 6.65 3.30 4.87 2.26 98.41
    169. Ind Mansur Ali Khan 46 (30.63) 34.03 18.53 6.81 2.75 .... 2.54 90.00
    170. Ind Manjrekar V.L 55 (30.59) 33.98 16.85 7.92 3.15 .... 2.67 90.00
    171. Eng Gatting M.W 79 (30.86) 33.74 16.46 7.08 4.38 0.61 2.32 91.47
    172. Aus Wood G.M 59 (30.47) 33.51 17.91 6.26 3.39 0.45 2.45 90.92
    173. Win Campbell S.L 52 (32.33) 33.40 17.89 6.40 2.92 2.53 2.59 96.78
    174. Eng Fletcher K.W.R 59 (30.13) 33.36 16.53 7.80 3.32 0.13 2.36 90.32
    175. Win Hinds W.W 45 (33.35) 33.35 17.44 6.20 2.59 4.78 2.33 100.00
    176. Slk Gurusinha A.P 41 (30.32) 33.27 16.92 7.82 2.48 0.47 2.63 91.14
    177. Nzl Dowling G.T 39 (29.92) 33.25 18.85 6.07 2.32 .... 2.68 90.00
    178. Win Gomes H.A 60 (29.79) 33.10 16.46 7.79 3.23 .... 2.32 90.00
    179. Eng D'Oliveira B.L 44 (29.79) 33.10 17.20 7.81 2.44 .... 2.34 90.00
    180. Aus Blewett G.S 46 (33.06) 33.06 17.33 6.84 2.54 4.13 2.22 100.00
    181. Nzl Congdon B.E 61 (29.64) 32.94 17.37 6.28 3.45 .... 2.54 90.00
    182. Eng Edrich W.J 39 (29.57) 32.85 16.61 8.03 2.41 .... 2.52 90.00
    183. Saf McKenzie N.D 58 (32.85) 32.85 16.17 7.02 3.30 4.20 2.15 100.00
    184. Saf Hudson A.C 35 (31.46) 32.83 17.88 6.81 2.00 2.33 2.42 95.81
    185. Nzl Young B.A 35 (31.18) 32.80 18.07 6.47 2.02 2.10 2.51 95.05
    186. Pak Mudassar Nazar 76 (29.36) 32.62 15.36 7.49 4.07 .... 2.45 90.00
    187. Eng Flintoff A 75 (32.53) 32.53 14.70 6.05 3.65 6.16 1.97 100.00
    188. Nzl Coney J.V 52 (29.27) 32.52 16.87 7.37 2.65 .... 2.39 90.00
    189. Aus Burge P.J.P 42 (29.21) 32.45 16.92 7.65 2.31 .... 2.33 90.00
    190. Ind Wadekar A.L 37 (29.07) 32.30 18.43 6.05 2.13 .... 2.46 90.00
    191. Pak Mohsin Khan 48 (28.99) 32.21 16.40 7.30 2.70 .... 2.59 90.00
    192. Aus Marsh G.R 50 (29.63) 32.15 17.06 6.63 2.83 0.88 2.22 92.16
    193. Ind Engineer F.M 46 (28.89) 32.10 17.83 6.06 2.60 .... 2.40 90.00
    194. Eng Hick G.A 65 (30.62) 32.07 16.14 6.29 3.38 2.62 2.19 95.48
    195. Ind Borde C.G 55 (28.72) 31.91 16.37 7.01 2.99 .... 2.34 90.00
    196. Ind Roy P 45 (28.71) 31.90 17.08 6.49 2.48 .... 2.66 90.00
    197. Saf McLean R.A 40 (28.68) 31.87 18.01 6.16 2.12 .... 2.39 90.00
    198. Eng Randall D.W 47 (28.69) 31.87 17.33 6.55 2.51 .... 2.30 90.00
    199. Pak Kamran Akmal 40 (31.79) 31.79 15.06 6.47 2.10 6.22 1.94 100.00
    200. Nzl Howarth G.P 47 (28.53) 31.70 17.20 6.37 2.51 .... 2.45 90.00
    201. Aus Miller K.R 55 (28.48) 31.64 15.60 7.70 2.95 .... 2.23 90.00
    202. Nzl McCullum B.B 44 (31.55) 31.55 14.74 6.14 2.22 6.31 2.13 100.00
    203. Eng Woolley F.E 64 (28.33) 31.48 15.14 7.64 3.28 .... 2.27 90.00
    204. Saf Rhodes J.N 52 (30.54) 31.41 15.33 7.20 2.52 3.37 2.12 97.23
    205. Saf Nourse A.W 45 (28.21) 31.35 16.80 6.83 2.20 .... 2.38 90.00
    206. Nzl Burgess M.G 50 (27.99) 31.10 16.79 6.09 2.70 .... 2.41 90.00
    207. Ind Manjrekar S.V 37 (28.27) 30.94 15.84 7.49 2.10 0.48 2.35 91.39 2
    208. Pak Wasim Raja 57 (27.83) 30.92 15.65 7.09 2.87 .... 2.22 90.00
    209. Saf Rudolph J.A 35 (30.74) 30.74 15.61 6.80 2.06 4.30 1.97 100.00
    210. Eng Knott A.P.E 95 (27.45) 30.36 14.44 6.39 4.39 0.22 2.01 90.41
    211. Zim Flower G.W 67 (29.46) 30.28 15.28 5.84 3.42 2.63 2.29 97.31
    212. Ind Shastri R.J 80 (26.87) 29.52 13.42 7.12 3.85 0.37 2.12 91.01
    213. Ind Chauhan C.P.S 40 (26.52) 29.46 16.14 6.17 2.08 .... 2.13 90.00
    214. Saf Waite J.H.B 50 (26.50) 29.45 15.68 6.18 2.42 .... 2.22 90.00
    215. Win Logie A.L 52 (26.79) 29.42 14.52 7.11 2.47 0.62 2.06 91.06
    216. Pak Rameez Raja 57 (26.50) 29.24 14.70 6.40 2.84 0.26 2.30 90.64
    217. Pak Imran Khan 88 (26.29) 29.21 13.05 7.43 3.84 .... 1.97 90.00
    218. Eng Ames L.E.G 47 (25.78) 28.65 13.46 7.75 2.45 .... 2.12 90.00
    219. Pak Imtiaz Ahmed 41 (25.77) 28.64 15.33 5.99 2.11 .... 2.35 90.00
    220. Zim Whittall G.J 46 (27.74) 28.43 14.28 5.86 2.17 3.32 2.12 97.57
    221. Zim Campbell A.D.R 60 (27.41) 28.35 14.18 5.43 2.84 2.86 2.11 96.70
    222. Eng Ramprakash M.R 52 (27.78) 28.16 14.72 5.46 2.34 3.24 2.01 98.65
    223. Saf Boucher M.V 126 (28.16) 28.16 11.20 5.72 4.67 4.93 1.64 100.00
    224. Ind Kapil Dev N 131 (25.51) 28.11 11.63 6.17 5.23 0.67 1.81 90.75
    225. Slk Mahanama R.S 52 (26.17) 28.07 14.14 5.90 2.56 1.27 2.29 93.22
    226. Ind Jaisimha M.L 39 (25.24) 28.04 15.17 6.01 2.00 .... 2.06 90.00
    227. Nzl Greatbatch M.J 41 (25.47) 27.85 14.41 6.19 2.03 0.61 2.23 91.43
    228. Ind Mankad M.H 44 (24.96) 27.73 13.98 6.56 2.10 .... 2.32 90.00
    229. Saf Pollock S.M 108 (27.71) 27.71 10.89 6.25 3.78 5.25 1.54 100.00
    230. Aus Healy I.A 119 (26.77) 27.30 11.26 5.55 4.34 4.06 1.56 98.06
    231. Pak Moin Khan 69 (26.59) 27.24 12.49 5.67 2.74 3.87 1.84 97.63
    232. Win Jacobs R.D 65 (27.23) 27.23 12.66 5.45 2.59 4.78 1.74 100.00
    233. Nzl Vettori D.L 92 (27.10) 27.10 11.19 5.41 3.21 5.63 1.66 99.99
    234. Bng Mohammad Ashraf 48 (27.09) 27.09 13.59 4.49 2.12 4.61 2.27 100.00
    235. Win Dujon P.J.L 81 (24.42) 26.94 12.62 6.34 3.36 0.24 1.86 90.63
    236. Ind Srikkanth K 43 (24.04) 26.47 13.73 5.94 2.04 0.38 1.95 90.82
    237. Eng Rhodes W 58 (23.60) 26.22 12.70 6.74 2.37 .... 1.79 90.00
    238. Nzl Rutherford K.R 56 (24.18) 26.16 13.09 5.44 2.46 1.22 1.98 92.46
    239. Eng Smith M.J.K 50 (23.42) 26.02 13.01 6.22 2.32 .... 1.88 90.00
    240. Win Ganga D 48 (25.91) 25.91 13.12 4.90 2.20 3.89 1.79 100.00
    241. Eng Bailey T.E 61 (22.88) 25.42 12.51 6.20 2.29 .... 1.88 90.00
    242. Aus Gregory S.E 58 (22.69) 25.21 12.64 5.89 2.27 .... 1.89 90.00
    243. Aus Marsh R.W 96 (22.72) 24.95 11.88 5.19 3.60 0.48 1.57 91.05
    244. Nzl Parore A.C 78 (23.83) 24.65 11.46 5.26 2.87 2.54 1.70 96.69
    245. Nzl Hadlee R.J 86 (21.86) 24.29 11.62 5.34 3.13 .... 1.77 90.00
    246. Aus Benaud R 63 (20.22) 22.47 11.52 4.97 2.20 .... 1.54 90.00
    247. Slk Vaas WPUJC 110 (21.61) 21.88 8.61 4.74 3.08 3.97 1.21 98.78
    248. Pak Wasim Akram 104 (20.64) 21.68 9.00 4.51 2.93 2.80 1.40 95.19
    249. Ind Kirmani S.M.H 88 (19.31) 21.37 9.63 5.31 2.73 0.14 1.49 90.32
    250. Aus Warne S.K 145 (19.88) 19.94 6.68 3.40 3.16 5.69 0.94 99.71
    251. Eng Evans T.G 91 (16.34) 18.15 8.38 4.27 2.40 .... 1.29 90.00
    252. Ind Kumble A 132 (16.00) 16.16 5.65 3.49 2.50 3.46 0.90 99.01

  3. #3
    International Coach KiWiNiNjA's Avatar
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    Crowe at 69. Represent!

  4. #4
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    Interesting.

    Steve Waugh at 34 is an interesting one. Lower than Pietersen, Younis Khan and Jayawardene.

    Gambhir also quite high on the list.
    "I am very happy and it will allow me to have lot more rice."

    Eoin Morgan on being given a rice cooker for being Man of the Match in a Dhaka Premier Division game.


  5. #5
    International Vice-Captain Days of Grace's Avatar
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    Okay, guys, I want to post my list of the top 60 test batsmen, haven't done 100 yet.

    Based on career adjusted averages, of which I will explain in detail when the final top 100 is published.

    Anyway, compare my list with the one in IT figures:

    1 DG Bradman 93.55 1410
    2 BC Lara 52.41 913
    3 GS Sobers 56.60 911
    4 JB Hobbs 57.89 902
    5 GA Headley 63.94 900
    6 SR Tendulkar 51.21 899
    7 SM Gavaskar 49.74 879
    8 L Hutton 54.50 871
    9 RT Ponting 50.40 866
    10 WR Hammond 52.94 861
    11 IVA Richards 49.02 858
    12 H Sutcliffe 55.80 851
    13 SR Waugh 49.05 848
    14 GS Chappell 52.10 848
    15 ED Weekes 55.83 832
    16 CL Walcott 55.58 827
    17 KF Barrington 52.88 826
    18 JH Kallis 48.89 810
    19 R Dravid 48.69 808
    20 AR Border 49.82 807
    21 AD Nourse 55.02 804
    22 Mohammad Yousuf 50.04 801
    23 ML Hayden 44.50 788
    24 Inzamam-ul-Haq 47.41 779
    25 A Flower 49.12 774
    26 KP Pietersen 47.08 768
    27 V Sehwag 47.33 768
    28 Younis Khan 46.46 765
    29 RN Harvey 46.39 760
    30 Javed Miandad 49.11 759
    31 S Chanderpaul 46.72 758
    32 CH Lloyd 46.53 758
    33 DCS Compton 49.77 755
    34 C Hill 48.70 754
    35 RG Pollock 56.14 747
    36 DPMD Jayawardene 45.46 744
    37 PBH May 46.60 743
    38 KC Sangakkara 45.35 742
    39 KS Ranjitsinhji 54.14 739
    40 MD Crowe 44.55 738
    41 B Mitchell 45.76 737
    42 GA Gooch 43.15 736
    43 FS Jackson 59.48 735
    44 RB Kanhai 46.21 734
    45 FMM Worrell 49.18 727
    46 VT Trumper 48.06 725
    47 G Boycott 44.42 724
    48 WM Lawry 46.89 724
    49 CG Macartney 46.51 723
    50 DI Gower 43.17 720
    51 PA de Silva 40.66 720
    52 KD Walters 46.82 718
    53 GC Smith 41.85 718
    54 AR Morris 44.36 718
    55 Saeed Anwar 43.74 716
    56 AC Gilchrist 42.99 716
    57 G Kirsten 43.27 716
    58 M Azharuddin 44.56 715
    59 CG Greenidge 43.30 713
    60 SM Nurse 46.89 712

    Notice how Weekes average is adjusted down. It should be as well. Can't understand how in the IT figures analysis, Weekes average is adjusted up. He plundered runs against weak bowling attacks, whilst only performing averagely against Australia and England (who albeit had some of the strongest bowling attacks in the history of the game post WWII).
    Greatest Ever Test XI: JB Hobbs, L Hutton, DG Bradman (c), IVA Richards, BC Lara, GS Sobers, AC Gilchrist (wk), Imran Khan, RJ Hadlee, MD Marshall, SK Warne 12th man: M Muralitharan


    Favorite XI: WG Grace, VT Trumper, IVA Richards, DCS Compton, FMM Worrell (c), AC Gilchrist (wk), CL Cairns, SK Warne, FS Trueman, SE Bond, T Richardson 12th man: H Larwood

  6. #6
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    The surprisingly high ratings for Ponting, and the three that Jono mentioned might represent the fact that all three are still active, and close to their prime. As they tail off with age ahead of being finally dropped, their rating would like decrease, you would think.

    Surprised Ponting is so high - I rate him very highly, but would not have had him above anyone else in the top 10. I do tend to hold back on granting people their dues until their retired however - I felt I couldn't fit Lara or McGrath, for instance, into my alltime Windies or Australian XIs until they retired.
    Quote Originally Posted by Irfan
    We may not like you, your filthy rich coffers or your ratbag scum of supporters but by god do we respect you as a football team
    GOOD OLD COLLINGWOOD - PREMIERS IN 2010

    Is Cam White, Is Good.

  7. #7
    International 12th Man Slifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Days of Grace View Post
    Okay, guys, I want to post my list of the top 60 test batsmen, haven't done 100 yet.

    Based on career adjusted averages, of which I will explain in detail when the final top 100 is published.

    Anyway, compare my list with the one in IT figures:

    1 DG Bradman 93.55 1410
    2 BC Lara 52.41 913
    3 GS Sobers 56.60 911
    4 JB Hobbs 57.89 902
    5 GA Headley 63.94 900
    6 SR Tendulkar 51.21 899
    7 SM Gavaskar 49.74 879
    8 L Hutton 54.50 871
    9 RT Ponting 50.40 866
    10 WR Hammond 52.94 861
    11 IVA Richards 49.02 858
    12 H Sutcliffe 55.80 851
    13 SR Waugh 49.05 848
    14 GS Chappell 52.10 848
    15 ED Weekes 55.83 832
    16 CL Walcott 55.58 827
    17 KF Barrington 52.88 826
    18 JH Kallis 48.89 810
    19 R Dravid 48.69 808
    20 AR Border 49.82 807
    21 AD Nourse 55.02 804
    22 Mohammad Yousuf 50.04 801
    23 ML Hayden 44.50 788
    24 Inzamam-ul-Haq 47.41 779
    25 A Flower 49.12 774
    26 KP Pietersen 47.08 768
    27 V Sehwag 47.33 768
    28 Younis Khan 46.46 765
    29 RN Harvey 46.39 760
    30 Javed Miandad 49.11 759
    31 S Chanderpaul 46.72 758
    32 CH Lloyd 46.53 758
    33 DCS Compton 49.77 755
    34 C Hill 48.70 754
    35 RG Pollock 56.14 747
    36 DPMD Jayawardene 45.46 744
    37 PBH May 46.60 743
    38 KC Sangakkara 45.35 742
    39 KS Ranjitsinhji 54.14 739
    40 MD Crowe 44.55 738
    41 B Mitchell 45.76 737
    42 GA Gooch 43.15 736
    43 FS Jackson 59.48 735
    44 RB Kanhai 46.21 734
    45 FMM Worrell 49.18 727
    46 VT Trumper 48.06 725
    47 G Boycott 44.42 724
    48 WM Lawry 46.89 724
    49 CG Macartney 46.51 723
    50 DI Gower 43.17 720
    51 PA de Silva 40.66 720
    52 KD Walters 46.82 718
    53 GC Smith 41.85 718
    54 AR Morris 44.36 718
    55 Saeed Anwar 43.74 716
    56 AC Gilchrist 42.99 716
    57 G Kirsten 43.27 716
    58 M Azharuddin 44.56 715
    59 CG Greenidge 43.30 713
    60 SM Nurse 46.89 712

    Notice how Weekes average is adjusted down. It should be as well. Can't understand how in the IT figures analysis, Weekes average is adjusted up. He plundered runs against weak bowling attacks, whilst only performing averagely against Australia and England (who albeit had some of the strongest bowling attacks in the history of the game post
    WWII).
    This is about Weekes. I thought the same about him until very recently when it was revealed to me on another forum that Weekes was specifically targeted in Australia and had a whole host of illnesses when he came up against Eng/Aust. This accounted for his less than stellar record against them.
    Cause Slifer said so.........!!!!

  8. #8
    International Debutant Evermind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt79 View Post

    Surprised Ponting is so high - I rate him very highly, but would not have had him above anyone else in the top 10. I do tend to hold back on granting people their dues until their retired however - I felt I couldn't fit Lara or McGrath, for instance, into my alltime Windies or Australian XIs until they retired.
    Other than for sentimental/stylistic reasons, what in Ponting's record makes him inferior to Lara and Tendulkar?

    Statistics, which is all this study takes into account, have accorded him his due place, although in all honesty I'd have him in my team over both Sachin and Lara purely because he's more likely to score me runs than the two of them.

  9. #9
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    That's just it - sentimentally and stylistically, I'd prefer Ponting - possibly it's a suspicion that I'm biased towards him that has stopped me rating him that highly.

    In terms of what counts against him - he's never had to face the one consistently great attack that was around in world cricket, his record in India and against Bhajji isn't great, and he's generally been able to bat secure in the knowledge that he's got a team of guns around him.

    As I mentioned before, I can't help but think that his rating is also boosted by the fact that he's probably just past the end of his peak period as a player. Given he'll likely play for another two-three years, his average will probably decrease as he inevitably wearies with age, dragging his rating down. It's just an unavoidable peril of comparing a guy whose career is complete, like Lara or Steve Waugh, with someone who's still in motion like Ponting or Pietersen.

  10. #10
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slifer View Post
    This is about Weekes. I thought the same about him until very recently when it was revealed to me on another forum that Weekes was specifically targeted in Australia and had a whole host of illnesses when he came up against Eng/Aust. This accounted for his less than stellar record against them.
    Well of course he was specifically targeted - he was the best batsmen in the line up. Just as guys like Sachin have had to deal with people making an extra effort against him.

  11. #11
    International 12th Man Slifer's Avatar
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    Read this then get back to me:



    West Indies in Australia and New Zealand 1951/52

    Named as a member of the West Indian teamWest Indian cricket team in Australia in 1951-52
    The West Indies cricket team toured Australia in the 1951-52 season and played five Test cricket against Australia national cricket team. The series was billed as the "World Championship of cricket", with both teams having beaten English cricket team in the previous 18 months....
    to tour Australia in 1951/52, Weekes was troubled by a range of injuries throughout the tour, including a ongoing thigh injury and a badly bruised right thumb when a door slammed shut on it while he was helping an injured Walcott out of his room, subsequently leaving his performances below expectations.

    Additionally, as the leading West Indian batsman, Weekes was targeted by the Australian fast bowlers, in particular Ray LindwallRay Lindwall
    Raymond Russell Lindwall MBE was a cricketer who represented Australia national cricket team in 61 Test cricket from 1946 to 1960. A right-arm fast bowling of express pace, Lindwall was widely regarded as the greatest pace bowler of his era and one of the finest of all time....
    , subjecting him to BodylineBodyline
    Bodyline, also known as fast leg theory, was a cricketing tactic devised by the English cricket team for their 1932?33 The Ashes tour of Australia, specifically to combat the extraordinary batting skill of Australia's Don Bradman....
    -like tactics of sustained short pitched bowling. Reviewing the series, the Sydney Morning Herald claimed that the Australian tactics to contain Weekes may have been just within the laws of cricket but infringed on the spirit of the game. Leading cricket commentator Alan McGilvrayAlan McGilvray
    Alan David McGilvray Order of Australia Order of the British Empire, was a former cricketer who played several first-class seasons for New South Wales in the mid-1930s before becoming the doyen of cricket commentators in Australia....
    later wrote "I remain convinced to this day the bumpers hurled at Weekes had a definite influence on charging up West Indian competitiveness in future series."


    West Indies in England 1957

    Weekes was affected by sinusitusSinusitis
    Sinusitis is an inflammation of the paranasal sinuses, which may or may not be as a result of infection, from bacterial, fungus, virus, allergy or autoimmunity issues....
    throughout the tour, requiring five operations, and broke a finger in late June
    Last edited by Slifer; 07-05-2009 at 11:35 AM.

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    This is bit too 'using statistics to prove something' for my taste, stats should be used like a drunk man uses a lamp post, more for support than illumination (nicked that from one of my old stats teachers). I'm not sure on % team runs being a useful measure, it's not Ponting's fault he played in an awesome line up, similarly it aids Lara here that he played in a crap line up (how much did he contribute to this with his attitude?). I also thinks this doesn't take into account a lot of factors such as off the field issues, one on one rivalries, injuries (e.g. Tendulkar has played at least 2 years of his career when he probably shouldn't have been due to his elbow problems, but he had to because the team was struggling and he's Tendulkar). I agree with you matt79 regarding Ponting not having to face his own attack (I reckon Mcgrath and Warne would have put a big dent in that average), similarly Richards never had to face Marshall and co, though at his peak he may well have gotten the better of them. Also don't think players who are still active should be in this list, almost all great players decline a lot towards the end of their careers, it's usually their reputations that prevent them from being dropped. Right now players such as Ponting, Kallis and Dravid could really go either way.

    These greatest ever things will never be definitive no matter what stats anyone manages to produce, just food for pub discussions really.

  13. #13
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evermind View Post
    other than for sentimental/stylistic reasons, what in ponting's record makes him inferior to lara and tendulkar?
    14,13,18,2,60,9,16,0,6,0,0,11,11,12,123,17,5,2,87, 24,8

    And I still have a problem rating people from this era as similar to people in the 90s. Sorry, I don't buy that its just luck we have so many people averaging 50+, when in the 90s, we had only a handful.
    Quote Originally Posted by KungFu_Kallis View Post
    Peter Siddle top scores in both innings....... Matthew Wade gets out twice in one ball
    "The future light cone of the next Indian fast bowler is exactly the same as the past light cone of the previous one"
    -My beliefs summarized in words much more eloquent than I could come up with

    How the Universe came from nothing

  14. #14
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    People averaging 50+ during the 1990s (20 Test minimum): Tendulkar, Waugh, Lara, Gooch.

    People averaging 50+ during the 2000s (20 Test minimum): Flower, Yousuf, Ponting, Kallis, Imzamam, Hussey, Sangakkara, Jayawardene, Tilakaratne, Gambhir, Lara, Chanderpaul, Dravid, Thorpe, Waugh, Hayden, Tendulkar, Younis, Samarweera, Pietersen, Graeme Smigh, Virender Sehwag.

    People can decide for themselves, and I've been given a few reasons for this. Sorry, I don't buy any of them so far. To me, it has been patently easier to score runs. 4 people vs. 22 people. Sorry, personally, I can't rate those runs the same way.

    Obviously, people have their own ideas, and they are welcome to them. Not for me though.

  15. #15
    Global Moderator Matt79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slifer View Post
    Read this then get back to me:



    West Indies in Australia and New Zealand 1951/52

    Named as a member of the West Indian teamWest Indian cricket team in Australia in 1951-52
    The West Indies cricket team toured Australia in the 1951-52 season and played five Test cricket against Australia national cricket team. The series was billed as the "World Championship of cricket", with both teams having beaten English cricket team in the previous 18 months....
    to tour Australia in 1951/52, Weekes was troubled by a range of injuries throughout the tour, including a ongoing thigh injury and a badly bruised right thumb when a door slammed shut on it while he was helping an injured Walcott out of his room, subsequently leaving his performances below expectations.

    Additionally, as the leading West Indian batsman, Weekes was targeted by the Australian fast bowlers, in particular Ray LindwallRay Lindwall
    Raymond Russell Lindwall MBE was a cricketer who represented Australia national cricket team in 61 Test cricket from 1946 to 1960. A right-arm fast bowling of express pace, Lindwall was widely regarded as the greatest pace bowler of his era and one of the finest of all time....
    , subjecting him to BodylineBodyline
    Bodyline, also known as fast leg theory, was a cricketing tactic devised by the English cricket team for their 1932?33 The Ashes tour of Australia, specifically to combat the extraordinary batting skill of Australia's Don Bradman....
    -like tactics of sustained short pitched bowling. Reviewing the series, the Sydney Morning Herald claimed that the Australian tactics to contain Weekes may have been just within the laws of cricket but infringed on the spirit of the game. Leading cricket commentator Alan McGilvrayAlan McGilvray
    Alan David McGilvray Order of Australia Order of the British Empire, was a former cricketer who played several first-class seasons for New South Wales in the mid-1930s before becoming the doyen of cricket commentators in Australia....
    later wrote "I remain convinced to this day the bumpers hurled at Weekes had a definite influence on charging up West Indian competitiveness in future series."


    West Indies in England 1957

    Weekes was affected by sinusitusSinusitis
    Sinusitis is an inflammation of the paranasal sinuses, which may or may not be as a result of infection, from bacterial, fungus, virus, allergy or autoimmunity issues....
    throughout the tour, requiring five operations, and broke a finger in late June
    That's like the third time you've posted that article. It doesn't make any sense. It jumps from telling us who Lindwall is, to starting a new para telling us what Bodyline is, without directly linked the two. The suggestion that Weekes was targeted using Bodyline tactics is implied but not stated. But what Lindwall bowled was not Bodyline - that field was illegal by then, and the pitches were a hell of a lot flatter.

    What Lindwall bowled was no worse than plenty of other bowlers have bowled. Colin Croft and Andy Roberts come to mind. He was, however one of the first bowlers to commonly employ the bouncer at speed since the Bodyline series and people knee jerked in a predicable fashion. He and Miller targeted Hutton for plenty of short stuff as well, believing he didn't like it. And they were booed around England for it. And there were no shortage of scribes keen to raise the spectre of Bodyline to sell papers - it's the same kind of hysteria we see today for any suggestion of ball tampering etc.

    The injury to his leg is a different matter, but all that article suggests is that he had a weakness against high quality fast bowling.

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